Let's Talk All Things 3d for prop creation, Scan, Design, Sculpt (real and digital), Print and Finish

[greenmachines]

woow too good thank you very much, all this information is so informative. I must say that I know nothing about CNC D or my message, it would be interesting to do a test with a mask twice as small to see what the possibilities are, I also see in your message that you are talking about CNC for wood and you are also talking about robot box what is a robot box? I know that it might cost a certain amount but I think it is worth it and I think that the colors that we can give to the wood afterwards can be very interesting, playing with transparency.

The commercial version of cnc milling machines are the 15,000 starting price and are a robot inside of shielded box to keep flying objects from harming people. 15000 would be the price expected as a very old used unit. A better way too find these is to search on 4 axis and 5 axis milling machines. Extremely expensive. Small, home version, would not hold anything the size of the mask. I wouldn't recommend going that route.

CNC routers are much cheaper but still several thousand dollars if they are quality. Some small units are in the range of 500. With these the mask would need to be flipped over to do the other side.

I recommend doing a lot of watching online videos with similar projects.

This is not even somewhat in the realm of easy.

A 3d printer would be far easier and cheaper with only the need to use the correct filament (mentioned by Mottrex ) and final touchup paint when done. I could also do the entire process without flipping it over or learning how to make cnc keying.

 

[LuckyS7evine]

If I gave you a 3D file, do you think you could do something with it?

The commercial version of cnc milling machines are the 15,000 starting price and are a robot inside of shielded box to keep flying objects from harming people. 15000 would be the price expected as a very old used unit. A better way too find these is to search on 4 axis and 5 axis milling machines. Extremely expensive. Small, home version, would not hold anything the size of the mask. I wouldn't recommend going that route.

CNC routers are much cheaper but still several thousand dollars if they are quality. Some small units are in the range of 500. With these the mask would need to be flipped over to do the other side.

I recommend doing a lot of watching online videos with similar projects.

This is not even somewhat in the realm of easy.

A 3d printer would be far easier and cheaper with only the need to use the correct filament (mentioned by Mottrex ) and final touchup paint when done. I could also do the entire process without flipping it over or learning how to make cnc keying.

If I gave you a 3D file, do you think you could do something with it?

 

[greenmachines]

Not I. I have plenty of my own projects.

 

[joberg]

The commercial version of cnc milling machines are the 15,000 starting price and are a robot inside of shielded box to keep flying objects from harming people. 15000 would be the price expected as a very old used unit. A better way too find these is to search on 4 axis and 5 axis milling machines. Extremely expensive. Small, home version, would not hold anything the size of the mask. I wouldn't recommend going that route.

CNC routers are much cheaper but still several thousand dollars if they are quality. Some small units are in the range of 500. With these the mask would need to be flipped over to do the other side.

I recommend doing a lot of watching online videos with similar projects.

This is not even somewhat in the realm of easy.

A 3d printer would be far easier and cheaper with only the need to use the correct filament (mentioned by Mottrex ) and final touchup paint when done. I could also do the entire process without flipping it over or learning how to make cnc keying.

And you have to get a bent piece at that. This mask is not flat by any means...or you have a big piece of wood that your CNC machine can carve on both sides: one convex and one concave.

 

[LuckyS7evine]

Et pour cela, il faut une pièce courbée. Ce masque n'est absolument pas plat… ou alors vous avez une grosse pièce de bois que votre machine CNC peut sculpter des deux côtés : une convexe et une concave.

That's actually how I thought I'd do it. After all, we know very well that in reality it's often not the same.

 

[greenmachines]

A recent issue that continues to resurface is extruder plugging during the first layer. I do not yet have resolution to this but would like to open the discussion.

On anything that has a large surface area first layer, especially including brim or raft:

Of course, my first guess is that it is time to re-zero the bed to the print head. This is the initial, out of the shipping box, use of the manual leveling knobs to get the bed within one sheet of paper away, ON ALL FOUR CORNERS. Ask if you don't know what this is.

I will report results when done.

I can definitely see burn marks and clumps again, in my first layer, from the hot print head going back through already laid filament. This would not logically be possible because the printhead should not go back over the sane space while in a single layer. No part of 'layer' would pass another run over itself as it is one long continuous path, like a hand drawn maze. However, first layer printing smashes the filament into the surface of the bed and it expands slightly sideways and more so when the z height adjustment is too close (too small). This would push one print line into the one next to it causes ripples and clumps.

I have already done the standard bed scanning/mapping (it calls it leveling but really is just mapping) and it continues to worsen over time.

I think this means that the re-zeroing with the manual knobs and the sheet of printer paper is a normal maintenance process that I should just expect to do monthly.

Thoughts?

And yes, I have caught myself resting my arm on the spanner bar while unplugging a clog so I expect I am knocking it down in z height each time.

 

[laellee]

A recent issue that continues to resurface is extruder plugging during the first layer. I do not yet have resolution to this but would like to open the discussion.

I have (for year) had 1st layer clogging/ blockages happen that either eventually clear themselves or never come back around. It's not a regular occurrence and doesn't seem to happen as much as it used to, but I could print some FDM part fine, let the printer sit idle for a few days, then run into this when I came back to print again. Advancing the filament through wouldn't really help, manually clearing the nozzle tip with wire was also not very successful either. Eventually I would just pull the nozzle, advance the filament through by hand a little bit to make sure it would clear the extruder and come out the threaded nozzle hole, and then install a new nozzle. I know this is not ideal (pushing that heated filament out without a nozzle in), but I've never had an issue with installing the new nozzle after a cursory wipe-away of any filament around the hole.

What's my take-away? Not sure. Bad filament (as in the composition and possibly moisture) can cause this, but I have had it with good filament that I kept using successfully after the clearing. Nozzle changes take me 2 minutes and cost maybe 50 cents in brass, so the swap isn't a time or cost issue. If I had to just guess, I think when the filament cools in the extruder after the previous run, t somehow has collected/refined some sort of impurities or fillers that create a blocking 'nub' of material that is too big to clear my .4 nozzle. That gets pushed to the top of the nozzle port, and a wire-clearing is just pushing it back into the hot end's body where it sits until I try and advance filament again. So, pull the clogged nozzle without clearing, push some filament through just to be sure we're clear, and install new nozzle. Works for me. Still a little frustrating, but I'd rather have a first layer failure like this than a 1000th layer failure lol.

 

[greenmachines]

I have (for year) had 1st layer clogging/ blockages happen that either eventually clear themselves or never come back around. It's not a regular occurrence and doesn't seem to happen as much as it used to, but I could print some FDM part fine, let the printer sit idle for a few days, then run into this when I came back to print again. Advancing the filament through wouldn't really help, manually clearing the nozzle tip with wire was also not very successful either. Eventually I would just pull the nozzle, advance the filament through by hand a little bit to make sure it would clear the extruder and come out the threaded nozzle hole, and then install a new nozzle. I know this is not ideal (pushing that heated filament out without a nozzle in), but I've never had an issue with installing the new nozzle after a cursory wipe-away of any filament around the hole.

What's my take-away? Not sure. Bad filament (as in the composition and possibly moisture) can cause this, but I have had it with good filament that I kept using successfully after the clearing. Nozzle changes take me 2 minutes and cost maybe 50 cents in brass, so the swap isn't a time or cost issue. If I had to just guess, I think when the filament cools in the extruder after the previous run, t somehow has collected/refined some sort of impurities or fillers that create a blocking 'nub' of material that is too big to clear my .4 nozzle. That gets pushed to the top of the nozzle port, and a wire-clearing is just pushing it back into the hot end's body where it sits until I try and advance filament again. So, pull the clogged nozzle without clearing, push some filament through just to be sure we're clear, and install new nozzle. Works for me. Still a little frustrating, but I'd rather have a first layer failure like this than a 1000th layer failure lol.

I will definitely get a pack of replacement nozzles as speed of resolution is getting more important on each project.

I can definitely see your logic here and it feels the same in my experience, like the heating is creating an altered filament residue that is not remelting and even possibly creating a chicken gizzard or alligator stomach effect like rocks jumbling around in the mix (the little space in the head where the melting occurs) until they align to form a solid blockage. Whenever I start to aee the burned curf flakes on first layer (think burned rubbed metal) I know the clog will happen soon. Very large areas of first layer raft or brim nearly guarantees it.

 

[joberg]

I will definitely get a pack of replacement nozzles as speed of resolution is getting more important on each project.

I can definitely see your logic here and it feels the same in my experience, like the heating is creating an altered filament residue that is not remelting and even possibly creating a chicken gizzard or alligator stomach effect like rocks jumbling around in the mix (the little space in the head where the melting occurs) until they align to form a solid blockage. Whenever I start to aee the burned curf flakes on first layer (think burned rubbed metal) I know the clog will happen soon. Very large areas of first layer raft or brim nearly guarantees it.

Question from a total newb in terms of clogging: would it help to start your printing by starting with a line (to un-clog the head from the filament gunk)? That continuous line is a "test line" that's attached to your normal piece you want to print. After the print is complete, you'll simply detach that line (and the gunk, if there's gunk) like you would do with your scaffoldings. Does it make sense, or should I draw something?

 

[laellee]

I will definitely get a pack of replacement nozzles as speed of resolution is getting more important on each project.

I just buy them by the dozen, it's a small cost to keep printing. Also, it hasn't happened in quite some time, definitely more so when I was jumping from brand-to-brand with filaments just buying cheap stuff to prototype with. Now that I stick with 3-4 brands, I am more likely to run into a snagged reel than a clogged nozzle (and that is still almost never).

Side note, I also don't use hardened nozzles with special filaments (like stainless steel or ferromagnetic) either, I just stick with the brass. I'm sure there are benefits to running hardened nozzles with more abrasive filaments if you are running the stuff all the time, but really there's no reason not to just switch your nozzles out every couple hundred hours anyways. I'd also be pissed if I spent more on hardened nozzles and then got clogs that made me toss them anyways

 

[greenmachines]

I just buy them by the dozen, it's a small cost to keep printing. Also, it hasn't happened in quite some time, definitely more so when I was jumping from brand-to-brand with filaments just buying cheap stuff to prototype with. Now that I stick with 3-4 brands, I am more likely to run into a snagged reel than a clogged nozzle (and that is still almost never).

Side note, I also don't use hardened nozzles with special filaments (like stainless steel or ferromagnetic) either, I just stick with the brass. I'm sure there are benefits to running hardened nozzles with more abrasive filaments if you are running the stuff all the time, but really there's no reason not to just switch your nozzles out every couple hundred hours anyways. I'd also be pissed if I spent more on hardened nozzles and then got clogs that made me toss them anyways

Can you share your favorite brands? I know you do this commercially so I am quite alright with accepting it as industry secrets/experience as a no share.

 

[greenmachines]

Question from a total newb in terms of clogging: would it help to start your printing by starting with a line (to un-clog the head from the filament gunk)? That continuous line is a "test line" that's attached to your normal piece you want to print. After the print is complete, you'll simply detach that line (and the gunk, if there's gunk) like you would do with your scaffoldings. Does it make sense, or should I draw something?

I don't know if all print software does this but mine actually does this line at the beginning of every print.

The clogging issue isn't at the start but during its first layer run, with plenty of print already successfully laid. It ends up spending too much time in a high risk clogging environment, close to the surface of a guaranteed untrue flat plane (not flat).

 

[laellee]

Can you share your favorite brands? I know you do this commercially so I am quite alright with accepting it as industry secrets/experience as a no share.

Most of my FDM prints are proof-of-concept tests so I'm never spending $30 on a non-specialized PLA roll, but I have had consistent results with:

Hatchbox
Overture
Creality
Tecbears
Sunlu

If I had to stick with one, I would buy them in that order. I have had some spool tangle issues with Sunlu, but we're talking maybe 1 in 40; I lose enough prints to other problems (including user error lol) that I don't write them off. I would buy Hatchbox and Overture exclusively, but I'm getting everything from Amazon and sometimes my preference is out of stock.

 

[greenmachines]

Most of my FDM prints are proof-of-concept tests so I'm never spending $30 on a non-specialized PLA roll, but I have had consistent results with:

Hatchbox
Overture
Creality
Tecbears
Sunlu

If I had to stick with one, I would buy them in that order. I have had some spool tangle issues with Sunlu, but we're talking maybe 1 in 40; I lose enough prints to other problems (including user error lol) that I don't write them off. I would buy Hatchbox and Overture exclusively, but I'm getting everything from Amazon and sometimes my preference is out of stock.

thank you, it means a lot coming from hundreds of hours of experience....thousands actually

 

[smithjohnj]

You might examine what your slicer default settings are for First Layer. For example, my slicer uses a slight higher bed temperature, about 5 degree C. for the first layer for better "grip" to the filament. It also prints at a much slower speed than other layers to ensure good adhesive to adjacent lines. If the nozzle is clogging I might also suggest upping the nozzle temperature slightly for the specific filament, reducing the fan speed (filament cooling), or both. Also if the filament has absorbed moisture it can "sputter" when lying down a line causing localized "high spots". Again changing one variable at a time with your testing is a good approach.

EDIT. My slicer also sets the first layer at a larger layer height than other layers (which I reset every time). The thought is that the bed is never as level as even their own printer software hopes it will be, and the first layer helps set a "flatter foundation" and then builds on that.

 

[joberg]

You might examine what your slicer default settings are for First Layer. For example, my slicer uses a slight higher bed temperature, about 5 degree C. for the first layer for better "grip" to the filament. It also prints at a much slower speed than other layers to ensure good adhesive to adjacent lines. If the nozzle is clogging I might also suggest upping the nozzle temperature slightly for the specific filament, reducing the fan speed (filament cooling), or both. Also if the filament has absorbed moisture it can "sputter" when lying down a line causing localized "high spots". Again changing one variable at a time with your testing is a good approach.

EDIT. My slicer also sets the first layer at a larger layer height than other layers (which I reset every time). The thought is that the bed is never as level as even their own printer software hopes it will be, and the first layer helps set a "flatter foundation" and then builds on that.

Reading your response and being a total newb in 3-D printing, I'm of the opinion that each brand of spool needs its own nozzle temp/bed temp to avoid the gunk/clogging...does spools like Hatchbox, Creality and others are coming with factory instruction on how to use their products properly?

 

[smithjohnj]

My largest amount of experience comes from Prusa products. They make, sell, and support their own brand of printers, slicer software, and filaments. The all seem to work well together for me. Their slicer software allows the user to select the brand of printer, brand of filament, type of filament (PLA, ABS, PETG, Nylon, etc.), and some other factors such as nozzle size and it provides a "configuration" of default values which they suggest based on their own testing. The user can change any of these values (based on their experience or testing). The values are then used to slice and generate the g-code. In creating random combinations I can create some variations in the default values - BUT I have no way to test if these values really produce improved or even proper performance. I find these defaults helpful when I use a different filament material for the first time but often fine-tune them to my own needs. I may need to do this more than some people as I do not use a printer enclosure (yet) so the environment can change greatly across the four seasons. Hot, humid summers versus cold, dry winters can affect my filament and print quality. So I need to test and print during the same relative weather conditions. I "try" to document these conditions and settings when I do prints where I plan to repeat and/or improve the objects.