The Y-Wing "Green Leader" Project - NOW OPEN SOURCE!
- Thread starter DaveG
- Start date
Beautiful!
So here's a little trick I'll pass along when you need to make multiple 2 part molds...
To make the 2 part mold for the tail shroud I first embedded the pattern part in clay to the desired parting line, poured rubber for the first half, when the rubber was set flipped the mold over, carefully cleaned away the clay and poured the second half. Sounds easy, right? Well it really is, but it's time consuming. Now on average you'll get around two dozen castings out of a silicone mold* before it starts to break down and becomes useless. I'm going to need to cast somewhere between 80 and 100 tail shrouds, which means I'll probably end up needing four sets of molds. In order NOT to have to go through the whole claying up, pour, flip, clean and pour again process for each mold I poured a set of archive masters of each completed mold half, complete with all the alignment keys, pour channels and vents. These were poured by building a disposable box around each silicone mold half and filling it with the same rigid urethane resin used to cast the parts. Then for each additional mold set that I need I'll box around the archive casting and pour the mold from that. A quick and easy way to crank out multiple 2 part molds. Yes, this does add an additional generation to the finished parts but the differences between the first and second generation castings are negligible.
* This is for Tin based silicone molds. The yields for Platinum based silicone molds can be much higher, but I needed the extra flexibility of the Tin rubber over the Platinum.
** Mold releases and barrier coats can also extend mold life but they can be a hassle to use and affect paint adhesion on the final castings.
To make the 2 part mold for the tail shroud I first embedded the pattern part in clay to the desired parting line, poured rubber for the first half, when the rubber was set flipped the mold over, carefully cleaned away the clay and poured the second half. Sounds easy, right? Well it really is, but it's time consuming. Now on average you'll get around two dozen castings out of a silicone mold* before it starts to break down and becomes useless. I'm going to need to cast somewhere between 80 and 100 tail shrouds, which means I'll probably end up needing four sets of molds. In order NOT to have to go through the whole claying up, pour, flip, clean and pour again process for each mold I poured a set of archive masters of each completed mold half, complete with all the alignment keys, pour channels and vents. These were poured by building a disposable box around each silicone mold half and filling it with the same rigid urethane resin used to cast the parts. Then for each additional mold set that I need I'll box around the archive casting and pour the mold from that. A quick and easy way to crank out multiple 2 part molds. Yes, this does add an additional generation to the finished parts but the differences between the first and second generation castings are negligible.
* This is for Tin based silicone molds. The yields for Platinum based silicone molds can be much higher, but I needed the extra flexibility of the Tin rubber over the Platinum.
** Mold releases and barrier coats can also extend mold life but they can be a hassle to use and affect paint adhesion on the final castings.
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Beautiful work, Dave. Sometimes I find photos of kit parts and what goes into creating them more interesting than a kit build.
Question for you, if you don't mind: In the RPF video linked, you make mention that 3D printed parts aren't necessarily "archival" and that's why you go about making molds for resin pieces. Could you comment on that a bit further? I'm about to start using 3D printed parts in some of my builds, and have felt that I should resin-cast anything printed, but the appeal is strong to simply clean a print and use it as-is on a build. I have some Shapeways printed Civil War ironclad turrets from several years ago that still look perfectly fine, but I obviously don't want to use something that's going to break down faster than resin or styrene.
Thanks!
Question for you, if you don't mind: In the RPF video linked, you make mention that 3D printed parts aren't necessarily "archival" and that's why you go about making molds for resin pieces. Could you comment on that a bit further? I'm about to start using 3D printed parts in some of my builds, and have felt that I should resin-cast anything printed, but the appeal is strong to simply clean a print and use it as-is on a build. I have some Shapeways printed Civil War ironclad turrets from several years ago that still look perfectly fine, but I obviously don't want to use something that's going to break down faster than resin or styrene.
Thanks!
As to the archival nature of 3D printed parts... first of all it depends on the type of printed part. Parts made with extrusion style printers (the most common type of consumer printer) in ABS, PLA, etc. are fine and will last pretty much forever, as will the nylon "White, Strong and Flexible" parts that Shapeways makes. The parts that can be a problem are the ones made from UV cured resin like Shapeways' Ultra Detail and Extreme Detail plastics. Small detail parts (like the control vanes for the tail shrouds) should be fine and last without any problems. Though they can become more brittle with age, they won't distingrate or anything like that. The real problem are larger, thin walled parts, like the forward fuselage shells that I show in the video. Parts like these are very prone to warping and distorting over time. And this observation comes from direct experience. Where I work we make a lot of 3D printed parts with UV cured resin and have seen this happen over and over. A good internal support structure (non 3D printed) can help but long term the warping problems can still occur. I'd like my models to last 25, 35 years or longer (heck, forever!) so it's just safer to stick with resin castings instead of 3D printing for the larger final parts.
mmhnc
Well-Known Member
DaveG I followed your X-Wing build and had no idea this was going on until I watched the tested video! As everyone I'm really excited to get to try and build this guy myself. Also I think you did great in the interview, in fact about halfway through I was thinking I would have sounded way more nervous.
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royal
Active Member
Hi dave! Ive always wanted a ywing fighter found this tread true tested thanks for sharing your files. I never knew how to start the build and this is the perfect start!
I was wondering if in a while after u sold some kits the cockpit and engine's will be uploaded for printing?
I was wondering if in a while after u sold some kits the cockpit and engine's will be uploaded for printing?
Royal - Not sure what my plans are for the forward fuselage files, some form of those will probably be made public but not for awhile. As for the engines, There are no 3D printing files for those, you'll need 2 of the AMT 1/144 Saturn V kits for the shells. I'm not sure if Masterpiece Models is planning to mold and cast those as part of their nernie pack. It certainly would be a good opportunity for someone... (hint, hint). I'm not gonna do it.
There are 3D files for the L'Eggs nose cones and shrouds that I will be uploading in a week or two, although at $40 a set for my castings you'ld be hard pressed to do them cheaper. But if you want to use real L'Eggs and scratch build the rest they are available on Ebay.
Eventually I will be putting out full 2D plan drawings, but they don't exist yet and won't until I get close to being done with the model building. And that's going to be awhile.
There are 3D files for the L'Eggs nose cones and shrouds that I will be uploading in a week or two, although at $40 a set for my castings you'ld be hard pressed to do them cheaper. But if you want to use real L'Eggs and scratch build the rest they are available on Ebay.
Eventually I will be putting out full 2D plan drawings, but they don't exist yet and won't until I get close to being done with the model building. And that's going to be awhile.
steve_jones
Active Member
Love this project , and luckily I have just finished building my own 3d printer, I wonder what I could test it with hmmm
Great work !
Great work !
I was working on the back of the engine connector and was wondering if someone would be interested in this STL file I've created?
Top of the picture shows the parts I'd offer in this file. 4 x fins and the main central cylinder. Bottom shows whatit does on the engine
It allows to attach the Saturn V Body to the Staturn V cone and install the heatsink in the same time.
it has way enough room to install internal light.
If people are interested, I'll check with Mr Dave G hoe to put that in his open source folder.\
If someone can provide me a good name for this part.... So I can rename it and make it clear what it is about.
Just for info, the back cone coming from Saturn V is in two parts. When welded together, I did at 35.5mm measured from bottom.
Stephane
Top of the picture shows the parts I'd offer in this file. 4 x fins and the main central cylinder. Bottom shows whatit does on the engine
It allows to attach the Saturn V Body to the Staturn V cone and install the heatsink in the same time.
it has way enough room to install internal light.
If people are interested, I'll check with Mr Dave G hoe to put that in his open source folder.\
If someone can provide me a good name for this part.... So I can rename it and make it clear what it is about.
Just for info, the back cone coming from Saturn V is in two parts. When welded together, I did at 35.5mm measured from bottom.
Stephane
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Hammer3246
Sr Member
No worries.
Dave contacted me already and I'll provide him the files so he can post them on his Open Source folder.
Dave contacted me already and I'll provide him the files so he can post them on his Open Source folder.
Hammer3246
Sr Member
Excellent!No worries.
Dave contacted me already and I'll provide him the files so he can post them on his Open Source folder.
This is coming from my phone, expect errors.
MonsieurTox
Master Member
Looking nice Stéphane !
Be careful the large cone that goes into the Sat cans is not the stock part, it's trimmed !
Thanks Julien.
You gonna need to be a bit more precise.
I presume you're talking about this part:
That would explain why the small holes and the key bits are missing in the Y-Wing....
Based on the Mr Ladd version Photos I have, I can imagine that the top part as been chopped off. I presume to optimise their lighting source in the engines.
Would you know by how much So I can re adjust my parts.
So far, my actual version works with this cone intact.
Stephane
You gonna need to be a bit more precise.
I presume you're talking about this part:
That would explain why the small holes and the key bits are missing in the Y-Wing....
Based on the Mr Ladd version Photos I have, I can imagine that the top part as been chopped off. I presume to optimise their lighting source in the engines.
Would you know by how much So I can re adjust my parts.
So far, my actual version works with this cone intact.
Stephane
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