Correcting the Lunar Models 41" Excelsior
- Thread starter Vidar 710
- Start date
Vidar 710
Well-Known Member
Moving on to the vertical sections of the pylons...
Determining the correct shape. As seen here, the blister at the top of the pylon is much shorter and thicker that what Lunar Models supplied with the kit.
Bottom view
Side view. The profile is also inaccurate. The trailing edge has no taper. It goes straight up while the leading-edge slants forward - angle determined further in this post.
Lunar came really close to getting something right. The angle to the vertical is very close. A slight tweak may be needed to the port pylon.
Templates for the upper blister to the nacelle. Plan and side views.
Removing what is not needed. This leave material that matches the width/cord of the horizontal section.
As seen here...
The leading edge of this section of the pylons lean forward 17 degrees.
With my templates made, now I can start fabricating the new/correct shape of the vertical section of the Warp Pylons.
Scenes-n-film to come!
Tracy
Determining the correct shape. As seen here, the blister at the top of the pylon is much shorter and thicker that what Lunar Models supplied with the kit.
Bottom view
Side view. The profile is also inaccurate. The trailing edge has no taper. It goes straight up while the leading-edge slants forward - angle determined further in this post.
Lunar came really close to getting something right. The angle to the vertical is very close. A slight tweak may be needed to the port pylon.
Templates for the upper blister to the nacelle. Plan and side views.
Removing what is not needed. This leave material that matches the width/cord of the horizontal section.
As seen here...
The leading edge of this section of the pylons lean forward 17 degrees.
With my templates made, now I can start fabricating the new/correct shape of the vertical section of the Warp Pylons.
Scenes-n-film to come!
Tracy
Vidar 710
Well-Known Member
The vertical sections are not glued in yet. They are supported with brass tubing.
Here, I'm establishing the longitudinal axis of the vertical sections with the core of the Lunar Model parts which you can see here are significantly off as per the penciled in reference lines. Resin outside the pencil markings will be removed.
Here the new leading and trailing edges are established, but not without problems.
17deg angel established on the leading-edge starboard side based off the small tick off the recessed grill detail...
17deg angle established on the port side...
COOL!!! Port side trailing edge established with just a little reshaping to the resin core.
HOWEVER!!! The starboard side is a wreck! The starboard pylon is off-set where the rear pops outboard by about 4 degrees off the longitudinal axis. All resin material outside of the new trailing edge will be removed to resculpt the pylon. Sculpting material will be used to fill in the inboard surface between the newly established leading and trailing edges. The plan is to sculpt in the new inboard surface first, so the core is not weakened by the huge loss of material, then the outboard side will be ground down to the leading and trailing edges for an entirely new shape.
New leading edges established at 17deg sweep. It's nice that ILM used 17 deg on everything in the pylons.
Sculping the new vertical pylons to come...
Tracy
Here, I'm establishing the longitudinal axis of the vertical sections with the core of the Lunar Model parts which you can see here are significantly off as per the penciled in reference lines. Resin outside the pencil markings will be removed.
Here the new leading and trailing edges are established, but not without problems.
17deg angel established on the leading-edge starboard side based off the small tick off the recessed grill detail...
17deg angle established on the port side...
COOL!!! Port side trailing edge established with just a little reshaping to the resin core.
HOWEVER!!! The starboard side is a wreck! The starboard pylon is off-set where the rear pops outboard by about 4 degrees off the longitudinal axis. All resin material outside of the new trailing edge will be removed to resculpt the pylon. Sculpting material will be used to fill in the inboard surface between the newly established leading and trailing edges. The plan is to sculpt in the new inboard surface first, so the core is not weakened by the huge loss of material, then the outboard side will be ground down to the leading and trailing edges for an entirely new shape.
New leading edges established at 17deg sweep. It's nice that ILM used 17 deg on everything in the pylons.
Sculping the new vertical pylons to come...
Tracy
Vidar 710
Well-Known Member
Short update...
Free Form Air sculpted in.
They're a bit messy now, but you can see where the sculpting material was added to form the new shapes. There was resin removed as well to get the cord line of the vertical sections to align with the rest of the ship's Centerboard - old Navy term for imaginary line down the center of the ship forward to aft.
I'll give the Air Form epoxy dough 24 hours to cure before I sand them into their final shapes. Then, on to framing out the blisters at the tops that connect the pylons to the nacelles, then sculpt in their shapes the same way as seen here.
Tracy
Free Form Air sculpted in.
They're a bit messy now, but you can see where the sculpting material was added to form the new shapes. There was resin removed as well to get the cord line of the vertical sections to align with the rest of the ship's Centerboard - old Navy term for imaginary line down the center of the ship forward to aft.
I'll give the Air Form epoxy dough 24 hours to cure before I sand them into their final shapes. Then, on to framing out the blisters at the tops that connect the pylons to the nacelles, then sculpt in their shapes the same way as seen here.
Tracy
Vidar 710
Well-Known Member
The footpads of the blisters made of sheet styrene where the pylons attach to the nacelles. They've been pulled around brass tubing to match the shape of the nacelles.
Reference lines on the nacelle masters and the blister patterns aligned. The side profile patterns for the blisters have been cemented in place.
But first, the nacelles have to be aligned to ensure they are parallel to one another, then the pylon assembly is placed on the nacelles to determine their positions before forming the blisters to the nacelle's shape.
Using the grid pattern to ensure all sub-assemblies are square.
A profile gauge used to copy the nacelle's shape.
Making the ribs of the blisters
Ribs in place and curing overnight. Sculpting material will be filled in between the ribs to sculpt in a rough shape of the ribs. Once cured, the ribs will be sanded down to their final shapes.
More to come soon.
Tracy
Reference lines on the nacelle masters and the blister patterns aligned. The side profile patterns for the blisters have been cemented in place.
But first, the nacelles have to be aligned to ensure they are parallel to one another, then the pylon assembly is placed on the nacelles to determine their positions before forming the blisters to the nacelle's shape.
Using the grid pattern to ensure all sub-assemblies are square.
A profile gauge used to copy the nacelle's shape.
Making the ribs of the blisters
Ribs in place and curing overnight. Sculpting material will be filled in between the ribs to sculpt in a rough shape of the ribs. Once cured, the ribs will be sanded down to their final shapes.
More to come soon.
Tracy
Vidar 710
Well-Known Member
Another short one...
Final Pylon assembly.
Starboard side blister aligned with its reference line on the starboard nacelle master.
Port side...
Nacelle masters still secured to the mat grid to ensure they are square and parallel to one another before placing the pylon assembly for alignment. The pylons are not glued to the nacelle masters.
Starboard side:
1-2-3 blocks in place on the grid to ensure they are a pure perpendicular to the nacelles and apply weight to the assembly to ensure full contact is made at the joints.
Port side:
I'll allow the 20 min Epoxy to cure overnight, then I'll sculpt and blend in the vertical pylons into the horizontal section.
Tracy
Final Pylon assembly.
Starboard side blister aligned with its reference line on the starboard nacelle master.
Port side...
Nacelle masters still secured to the mat grid to ensure they are square and parallel to one another before placing the pylon assembly for alignment. The pylons are not glued to the nacelle masters.
Starboard side:
1-2-3 blocks in place on the grid to ensure they are a pure perpendicular to the nacelles and apply weight to the assembly to ensure full contact is made at the joints.
Port side:
I'll allow the 20 min Epoxy to cure overnight, then I'll sculpt and blend in the vertical pylons into the horizontal section.
Tracy
Vidar 710
Well-Known Member
Another short...
Excessive sculpting material pressed into gaps and blending the vertical sections into the horizonal piece.
Starboard
Port
When fully cured after 24 hours, I'll shape and blend everything together. A coat of acrylic filler will be applied to even out the surfaces as seen on the blisters.
Once I'm happy with that, a 3/4" hole with be drilled for wiring access, then it will be ready to cut down the middle of the wing for ease of assembly. Steel rods will be inserted into the forward and aft brass tubing within to act as armatures.
Tracy
Excessive sculpting material pressed into gaps and blending the vertical sections into the horizonal piece.
Starboard
Port
When fully cured after 24 hours, I'll shape and blend everything together. A coat of acrylic filler will be applied to even out the surfaces as seen on the blisters.
Once I'm happy with that, a 3/4" hole with be drilled for wiring access, then it will be ready to cut down the middle of the wing for ease of assembly. Steel rods will be inserted into the forward and aft brass tubing within to act as armatures.
Tracy
Vidar 710
Well-Known Member
Sanding to the final shape with fillers is complete. Now it's time to divide the pylons so they will be able to assemble within the Warp Pylon blister...
Here a special bit was used to drill through the multi-media of materials, which includes brass tubing.
The hole was a tad too big because it exposed both armature brass tubes, so I shimmed in some styrene then backfilled it with epoxy dough.
A cut line has been established here as well.
Top and bottom views
The cut went almost perfect. Small repairs and some clean up were required. Two armature brass tubing and one larger wire conduit tube.
Steele rod armatures inserted. Due to the fit being so tight, air would get trapped in the brass not allowing the steel rods to fully seat. To fix the problem, I ran each rod across the belt sander to make a flat spot on one side. This allowed the air to escape as the rods were pushed in.
Fully seated and still perfectly aligned.
Test fit into the blister. Like a glove!
I think I'll tackle the long blisters on the bottom of the nacelles next...
scenes-n-film...
Tracy
Here a special bit was used to drill through the multi-media of materials, which includes brass tubing.
The hole was a tad too big because it exposed both armature brass tubes, so I shimmed in some styrene then backfilled it with epoxy dough.
A cut line has been established here as well.
Top and bottom views
The cut went almost perfect. Small repairs and some clean up were required. Two armature brass tubing and one larger wire conduit tube.
Steele rod armatures inserted. Due to the fit being so tight, air would get trapped in the brass not allowing the steel rods to fully seat. To fix the problem, I ran each rod across the belt sander to make a flat spot on one side. This allowed the air to escape as the rods were pushed in.
Fully seated and still perfectly aligned.
Test fit into the blister. Like a glove!
I think I'll tackle the long blisters on the bottom of the nacelles next...
scenes-n-film...
Tracy
Last edited:
stevielewis
Sr Member
That is looking awesome! 
Vidar 710
Well-Known Member
Warp Nacelle bottom blisters from scratch...
Drawing out the paper templates.
Tracing paper used on scaled images to copy the actual shaped of the leading and trailing edges of the blisters.
Front
Rear
Tracings about to be transposed to the paper templates.
Paper templates placed to check position, size, and shape to the nacelle masters.
Paper templates completed and the preliminary parts cut from sheet styrene have been clamped together to ensure they are sanded into identical shapes for symmetry.
The plan is to cement triangle shaped styrene strips around the edges. This will add enough material to allow shaping to the contours of the nacelles, as well as sculpting their outer surfaces into their blister shapes.
Well, I need to order the triangle strip styrene.
Tracy
Drawing out the paper templates.
Tracing paper used on scaled images to copy the actual shaped of the leading and trailing edges of the blisters.
Front
Rear
Tracings about to be transposed to the paper templates.
Paper templates placed to check position, size, and shape to the nacelle masters.
Paper templates completed and the preliminary parts cut from sheet styrene have been clamped together to ensure they are sanded into identical shapes for symmetry.
The plan is to cement triangle shaped styrene strips around the edges. This will add enough material to allow shaping to the contours of the nacelles, as well as sculpting their outer surfaces into their blister shapes.
Well, I need to order the triangle strip styrene.
Tracy
Vidar 710
Well-Known Member
The fabrication of the bottom nacelle blisters.
Two layers of sheet styrene laminated with cement, then 2mm 1/4 cut styrene dowel (not triangles) were cemented to the edges to create height.
Front
Rear
After the cement cures, the blister's gluing surfaces were sanded down with sandpaper wrapped around a nacelle master to recreate the contour of the nacelle onto the bottom of the blisters for a perfect fit.
Blisters match the shape of the nacelles.
Then the material was removed to match the shape of the smaller pylon blisters.
Epoxy dough was applied to the gluing surfaces to give more strength and rigidity to the nacelle blister assemblies. After the filler cures overnight, they will be rounded out to their required shapes scene in the studio model references above.
More to come on this section...
Tracy
Two layers of sheet styrene laminated with cement, then 2mm 1/4 cut styrene dowel (not triangles) were cemented to the edges to create height.
Front
Rear
After the cement cures, the blister's gluing surfaces were sanded down with sandpaper wrapped around a nacelle master to recreate the contour of the nacelle onto the bottom of the blisters for a perfect fit.
Blisters match the shape of the nacelles.
Then the material was removed to match the shape of the smaller pylon blisters.
Epoxy dough was applied to the gluing surfaces to give more strength and rigidity to the nacelle blister assemblies. After the filler cures overnight, they will be rounded out to their required shapes scene in the studio model references above.
More to come on this section...
Tracy
Vidar 710
Well-Known Member
Nacelle top pattern scratch-build...
Drafting everything to determine the shape in my scale.
Here are the offerings from (middle: The Collective halfway decent try to at least look somewhat like what was on the studio model, but poorly vacuum formed and too narrow.) and (Bottom: Lunar's big hunk of resin that nowhere near represents what the nacelles look like. Since I've modified the nacelle masters (top) and lengthened them to the correct size and shape, the original parts are too short.
The actual ILM masters will guide me to make a single master that I will mold, then cast two copies from.
Drafting everything to determine the shape in my scale.
Here are the offerings from (middle: The Collective halfway decent try to at least look somewhat like what was on the studio model, but poorly vacuum formed and too narrow.) and (Bottom: Lunar's big hunk of resin that nowhere near represents what the nacelles look like. Since I've modified the nacelle masters (top) and lengthened them to the correct size and shape, the original parts are too short.
The actual ILM masters will guide me to make a single master that I will mold, then cast two copies from.
Great reference pics! Where'd you find them?
