Lets talk all things Star Wars
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NakedMoleRat
Master Member
It will actually use an algorithm to give us something that we actually want.
They said it could not be done in our lifetimes, or perhaps ever…
But Disney Star Wars, like The Little Engine That Could, pushed the envelope of what is possible by defying the odds and believing in themselves when no one else did…
They finally made a Star Wars product with a lower Audience Score than The Star Wars Holiday Special.
Keep reaching for the stars you dreamers and champions of imagination!
But Disney Star Wars, like The Little Engine That Could, pushed the envelope of what is possible by defying the odds and believing in themselves when no one else did…
They finally made a Star Wars product with a lower Audience Score than The Star Wars Holiday Special.
Keep reaching for the stars you dreamers and champions of imagination!
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One…two…many…LOTS!
CB2001
Master Member
Wouldn’t surprise me if the conversation went like this:
“Hey Dave, is there anyway I can feature witches in the universe?”
“Yeah, Lesley, you can use the Nightsisters.”
“Nonono, that was created by a straight guy, got anything made by a lesbian?”
“No.”
“Okay, I’m a lesbian. I’ll make a group of witches that doesn’t need men to get pregnant and they’ll be better than the Jedi or Nightsisters.”
“But-“
(Gets elbowed in the ribs by Kathleen Kennedy)
“Um… okay. Go with that.”
XD
“Hey Dave, is there anyway I can feature witches in the universe?”
“Yeah, Lesley, you can use the Nightsisters.”
“Nonono, that was created by a straight guy, got anything made by a lesbian?”
“No.”
“Okay, I’m a lesbian. I’ll make a group of witches that doesn’t need men to get pregnant and they’ll be better than the Jedi or Nightsisters.”
“But-“
(Gets elbowed in the ribs by Kathleen Kennedy)
“Um… okay. Go with that.”
XD
Joek3rr
Master Member
I can bet that Dave was all on board.
CB2001
Master Member
Joek3rr
Master Member
Dave Filoni.... The architect of "the Jedi bad" movement.
NakedMoleRat
Master Member
This guy’s girlfriend!
Joek3rr
Master Member
Yes, but Leslye has said she made show that's critical of the Jedi. And Dave throws the Jedi under bus all the time in interviews. So this isn't just the villain's point of view. Its become the actual "canon" and is stands in stark contrast to George's view.
Why are the Jedi supposed to be perfect saints? Why do you all want all Jedi to be perfect, morally precise angels? It’s so boring!
(So is the Acolyte… mostly…)
There was nothing worse in Star Wars than when i saw George Lucas’ Prequels and found out Jedi weren’t cool knights, like Luke, wearing black, wielding a lightsaber, saving the galaxy…
They were boring monks who folded their hands, sat in chairs and discussed trade disputes. They weren’t jokey, fun, charismatic… they didn’t woo princesses, they weren’t even allowed to love.
They find little kids, measure their blood, then throw a helmet on em and let em do yoga and wave a tiny lightsaber at a floating ball…
Luke Skywalker in the trilogy is a guy looking to the stars, dreaming of adventure.
The Luke in the Mandalorian is now depicted as the same boring monk, folding his hands, talking like a bored zombie to a puppet.
They ONLY thing interesting about the Acolyte so far is that maybe not every person with a connection to the force is a saint - even if on the light side.
Every organization for good has bad seeds… it’s clear this group did some not necessarily moral things, and that in no way makes Jedi as a whole an immoral organization. Space monks just have a few members who did a terrible thing, and are going to be living with the consequences.
I mean, didn’t the Jedi in the prequels fail cuz of hubris? They messed up big… they should be up for critique. It’s interesting, flawed heroes always are.
HeartBlade
Sr Member
The jedi fell because they were outplayed by the mastermind that is Palpatine.
The only scene where you could argue that the jedi were "too prideful" in the prequel trilogy is when they admit they have lost the ability of foresight due to the dark side and are debating if they should tell the chancellor and a side comment that the jedi are "too confident in their abilities"
This goes into EU territory but the "chosen one prophecy" is kind of an minor view among of the jedi. Although we as the audience know Anakin is the chosen one, the council does not and consistently state that training Anakin is dangerous (he has too much fear in him, unable to see his future). Yet, they still allow Obi Wan to take Anakin as an apprentice despite just becoming a knight himself.
I do think there are several factors that led to the fall of the jedi:
- completely outplayed by Palpatine on the war front
- Council couldnt see through the dark side and no one predicted that Palpatine was playing both sides
- The jedi believed the Sith were gone until Episode 1 and was the dominant force which could have led to them being overconfident. Im sure they get a reality check on Geonosis where a ton of jedi died.
- While Yoda choosing hide their inability of foresight could be seen as bad, Yoda states that only Palps knows of this and to inform the senate would just increase enemies. Given the fact that war breaks out shortly, more enemies would not be good
- Anakin being trained by Obi Wan
- Obi Wan is talented but was not prepared to train the one. Qui Gon as a more experienced teacher likely would have done a better job. Anakin already surpassed Obi Wan in some abilities by episode 2 and was stronger than Obi Wan by episode 3
- Anakin comments Obi Wan holds him back because he is jealous. Lucas failed to give us Obi Wan's side of the story but it was likely that Obi Wan just didnt know how to teach Anakin further. How do you teach a student who may already be better than you?
- the Jedi and their allies werent prepared for war
- the jedi is a peace keeping force, not a military. They were pushed into military/general positions probably because there was no one better (Galactic Senate does not seem to have a standing army and so relies on the clones to fight which Obi Wan basically randomly found in episode 2). I think Filloni made a mistake choosing to make the jedi "evil" rather than "incompetent" in terms of military strategy. It would have been better for the jedi to be outflanked in early battles because the droids under Grevious had better military strategy and its only because of the jedi's innate skills and the clones greater competence that they are able to survive the initial battles. Maybe some jedi have talent as generals and get better but the republic in general was unprepared for war. Would have made sense for some future Empire generals to appear here on the side of the Galactic Republic imo (a young Tarkin for example) leading the clones more efficiently and possibly command changing to them, resulting in the jedi slowly losing their position of power which Palpatine then has the army with generals loyal to him turn against the jedi.
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"Wars not make one great."
"Adventure. Excitement. A Jedi craves not these things."
In the 1970s-80s the Jedi "knights" seemed to have been some cross between monks in robes meditating and independent contractor Samurai types. Obi-Wan & Yoda in the OT were random dudes who had gone back to meditating & living quietly on their own like Biblical prophets out in the desert.
The PT politicking might not have been where they belonged but I think that was sort of the point. The Jedi had become too much of an organized religion in the PT. They were the medieval Catholic Church at the height of its power. (For a while the Pope was up there with kings of countries.) The Jedi had veered too close to the flame with organization & politics & power and they lost their mojo.
"Adventure. Excitement. A Jedi craves not these things."
In the 1970s-80s the Jedi "knights" seemed to have been some cross between monks in robes meditating and independent contractor Samurai types. Obi-Wan & Yoda in the OT were random dudes who had gone back to meditating & living quietly on their own like Biblical prophets out in the desert.
The PT politicking might not have been where they belonged but I think that was sort of the point. The Jedi had become too much of an organized religion in the PT. They were the medieval Catholic Church at the height of its power. (For a while the Pope was up there with kings of countries.) The Jedi had veered too close to the flame with organization & politics & power and they lost their mojo.
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Joek3rr
Master Member
The Jedi have always been monk like.
"Ready are you? What know you of ready? For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi. My own counsel will I keep on who is to be trained. A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph! Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! A Jedi craves not these things. You are reckless!"
The swashbuckling Jedi, while fun and exciting to watch, is only secondary to what Jedi really are.
The Jedi falling because of their "hubris" is a Dave Filoni invention. It's not from George. To George they've just been played by Palpatine. Forced into a lose/lose situation.
"This [the Prequel era] is the golden age of the Jedi" p. 335
"They [the Jedi] are the most moral of anybody in the galaxy." p. 441
"They [the Jedi] have good intentions but they have been manipulated, that was their downfall." p. 148
(excerpts from the Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005)
Also note, that George says the Jedi were basically drafted into the war. While Dave frames it as the Jedi, in their hubris, voluntarily joined and became generals.
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