Opinion Thread Vader Experts, what's the origin...

[propsculptor]

I don't know what to tell you, I've posted the information exactly as I receive it,
nothing is distorted, that's an exact quote from his email, that's why I added the Actual Time from his email.

Originally posted by fettpride@Apr 7 2006, 02:59 PM
Um, Interesting. I seriously don't want to be any more involved than I already got myself , but now things appear to be getting a little distorted. I sent you an e-mail about a few minutes ago.
FP

 

[Ghost Host]

The Fyberdyne may have come from Jeff, as Jeff used to make castings out of a really bad mold owned by another prop collector named "Roger", and clean them up and sell them finished. They had the impression of the cabinet latch on the forehead, which was supposedly attributed to the tour helmets. Not sure I'd call it Jeff's property though, any more than a Vadermaker would be. The Vadermaker master helmet was also out of Roger's funky mold. I personally cast it up with Roger's permission and started to clean it up. Eventually I gave up when I got a better one and gave it to my brother. Years later my brother sold it to Graham, who finished it up nicely.

Originally posted by RKW@Apr 7 2006, 02:12 PM
Lets not forget that the Fyberdyne was a recast of Jeff's helmet. The continuous improvements that have been made to it as seen in the GH, Gino and now Propsculpter helmet have all been made by who? Jeff?

Would Jeff be happy about another of his helmets being recast? Or can we consider it all fair game? History tells us it's fair game and we even have a staff member giving the green light  :lol

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[propsculptor]

If you are referring to Roger S, the Helmet I have isn't from him,
according to Greg.

Originally posted by Ghost Host@Apr 7 2006, 04:36 PM
The Fyberdyne may have come from Jeff, as Jeff used to make castings out of a really bad mold owned by another prop collector named "Roger", and clean them up and sell them finished. They had the impression of the cabinet latch on the forehead, which was supposedly attributed to the tour helmets.  Not sure I'd call it Jeff's property though, any more than a Vadermaker would be.  The Vadermaker master helmet was also out of Roger's funky mold.  I personally cast it up with Roger's permission and started to clean it up.  Eventually I gave up when I got a better one and gave it to my brother.  Years later my brother sold it to Graham, who finished it up nicely. 

Originally posted by RKW@Apr 7 2006, 02:12 PM
Lets not forget that the Fyberdyne was a recast of Jeff's helmet. The continuous improvements that have been made to it as seen in the GH, Gino and now Propsculpter helmet have all been made by who? Jeff?

Would Jeff be happy about another of his helmets being recast? Or can we consider it all fair game? History tells us it's fair game and we even have a staff member giving the green light  :lol

 

[SithLord]

Impressive transformation....

 

[propsculptor]

According to the guy who was originally thought to have done some clean-up on the helmet:

The helmets are definately NOT the same helmet... The neck, cheek tubes, & face edges are completely different. Just look at them.... It's definately NOT the same helmet, not even close other than being an ANH style...

Originally posted by SithLord@Apr 7 2006, 08:07 PM
Impressive transformation....

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[Too Much Garlic]

Originally posted by SithLord@Apr 8 2006, 06:07 AM
Impressive transformation....

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Yes, it doesn't match up completely to the Fyberdyne (that IS what the one on the right is, right?), but neither does the GH as you so elegantly showed in the ANH Accurate thread long ago:
post 12 on the page by SithLord
http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?...c=104967&st=520

Here are more pictures of the GH, that imo looks remarkably like this face, shown in this thread. Yes, they are some differenses, but to me they definitely come from the same family.

Post 5 on the page by RKW
http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?...c=104967&st=220

Post 4 on the page by RKW
Post 16 on the page by SithLord
http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?...c=104967&st=140

Post 6 on the page by Lordsandy
http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?...c=104967&st=100

Yeah, you get the picture... check out the thread for yourself...

Sorry to bring that thread back up, but there were some excellent pictures posted in that topic, even though it almost derailed a few times.

 

[fettpride]

Originally posted by propsculptor+Apr 7 2006, 04:46 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(propsculptor @ Apr 7 2006, 04:46 PM)</div>

I don't know what to tell you, I've posted the information exactly as I receive it,
nothing is distorted, that's an exact quote from his email, that's why I added the Actual Time from his email.

<!--QuoteBegin-fettpride

@Apr 7 2006, 02:59 PM
Um, Interesting. I seriously don't want to be any more involved than I already got myself , but now things appear to be getting a little distorted. I sent you an e-mail about a few minutes ago.
FP

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Dude, that wasn't pointed at you ... to be specific, it was Greg. I only meant that I was wanting to discuss your conversation with him further. It just pieves me when people change their stories at their own convenience. In Greg's case, he thinks he's a big shot, when in reality he's just an "uber geek" like the rest of us, with a little more money and a few more contacts :lol

If you get a chance, shoot me an e-mail about it. Otherwise, I'm gonna have to let a dead dog lie on this one ...

FP

 

[RKW]

Well I can now add this helmet to the ever growing list.

So according to GH it all started with Roger's molds.

1. Jeff uses these molds to sell helmets.

Time passes.......

2. Fyberdyne starts selling a helmet that looks incredibly similar to Roger's molds.

Time passes.......

3. GH then gets a helmet off Jeff which looks incredibly like a cleaned up version of what Jeff first offered and starts making copies to sell.

Time passes.......

4. Gino receives a casting from Jeff that looks mysteriously like a cleaned up version of what GH first received from Jeff. Now has a thicker uniform mouth.

Time passes.......

5. Finally Propsculpter receives a helmet which resembles Gino's but has had some more work done to it. The position of the finger nail slot on the cheek has been altered.



But the one physical attribute that all these faceplates still share because it would be virtually impossible to fix is that the teeth are angled incorrectly to the right (left when looking at the pic).

 

[zorg]

my head hurts :confused

 

[lambotour]

So I guess we'll call this one the ANH Mystery Helmet ? :confused

 

[Ghost Host]

Very simplistic analysis, but basically correct.

Originally posted by RKW@Apr 8 2006, 03:13 AM
Well I can now add this helmet to the ever growing list.

So according to GH it all started with Roger's molds.

1. Jeff uses these molds to sell helmets.

Time passes.......

2. Fyberdyne starts selling a helmet that looks incredibly similar to Roger's molds.

Time passes.......

3. GH then gets a helmet off Jeff which looks incredibly like a cleaned up version of what Jeff first offered and starts making copies to sell.

Time passes.......

4. Gino receives a casting from Jeff that looks mysteriously like a cleaned up version of what GH first received from Jeff. Now has a thicker uniform mouth.

Time passes.......

5. Finally Propsculpter receives a helmet which resembles Gino's but has had some more work done to it. The position of the finger nail slot on the cheek has been altered.

 

[propsculptor]

:lol Funny, but I actually like it.

Let's put it to a vote, anyone else have name suggestions.

Or do you like "The ANH Mystery Helmet" ?

Originally posted by lambotour@Apr 8 2006, 07:46 AM
So I guess we'll call this one the ANH Mystery Helmet ?  :confused

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[Zebardee]

Originally posted by propsculptor@Apr 8 2006, 08:33 PM
:lol Funny, but I actually like it.

Let's put it to a vote, anyone else have name suggestions.

Or do you like "The ANH Mystery Helmet" ?

Originally posted by lambotour@Apr 8 2006, 07:46 AM
So I guess we'll call this one the ANH Mystery Helmet ?  :confused

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How can it be a "Mystery Helmet" when you can clearly see where its origins come from as RKW has pointed out. :confused

 

[SithLord]

Originally posted by RKW@Apr 8 2006, 07:13 AM
Well I can now add this helmet to the ever growing list.

So according to GH it all started with Roger's molds.

1. Jeff uses these molds to sell helmets.

Time passes.......

2. Fyberdyne starts selling a helmet that looks incredibly similar to Roger's molds.

Time passes.......

3. GH then gets a helmet off Jeff which looks incredibly like a cleaned up version of what Jeff first offered and starts making copies to sell.

Time passes.......

4. Gino receives a casting from Jeff that looks mysteriously like a cleaned up version of what GH first received from Jeff. Now has a thicker uniform mouth.

Time passes.......

5. Finally Propsculpter receives a helmet which resembles Gino's but has had some more work done to it. The position of the finger nail slot on the cheek has been altered.

I disagree with you and with GH.

The GH is not a cleaned up version of the Jeff helmet. It either is a Jeff helmet or not. If it ever came from something with a latch mechanism that may be a possibility, but so far only the Fyberdyne shows that feature.

Whatever it was that Jeff was selling...do you have a photo of it?

Gino claims to have gotten a helmet from Jeff but there is no proof. Where is Jeff?

The Propsculptor helmet looks like it came from a Fyberdyne and was cleaned up and modified extensively.

Why reverse engineer a helmet back to make it look like a Jeff or GH helmet?

There's very little in common between the Propsculptor helmet and a GH. Look at how square the cheeks are on the Propsculptor helmet compared to the GH. The angle of Vader's left cheek sloping down on that TE faceplate is the same as on the Propsculptor helmet and more angled than the GH (but similar to the Fyberdyne). The GH and Fyberdyne seem related, but the GH was not modified from a Fyberdyne, at least the versions I've seen photos of.

 

[SithLord]

Originally posted by RKW@Apr 8 2006, 07:13 AM
But the one physical attribute that all these faceplates still share because it would be virtually impossible to fix is that the teeth are angled incorrectly to the right (left when looking at the pic).

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And I guess the SPFX helmet is the only one without that flaw? If so then it's not accurate because that feature is on the original faceplate...

 

[Fatherless One]

Thomas, which one is the TE you refer to?

 

[RKW]

Sithlord, I don't know why you consider it such a leap of faith to think that Jeff could have removed the latch and cleaned up other areas to create what we now know as the GH. Who do you think modifed Gino's and Propsculpters helmets?

All these derivatives have unique features not yet found on any original/Tour helmet and yet you think it's more plausible that Roger's molds and the GH were made from seperate Tour helmets.

Any pic of an original Vader shows the teeth angling slightly to the left unlike the GH derivatives which go the opposite direction.

 

[ROBOSTEVE 0671]

A very interesting thread, that GH ANH is a real thing of Beauty.

Nice pictures


Steve
...

 

[voice in the crowd]

I know we all enjoy and share a common hobby. Unfortunately making these helmets and passing copies of them on can end people up in court with LFL.

Now I have read this thread and I am unsure if certain people would enjoy seeing their full names plastered all over the internet in relation to passing on these items.

Don't want to be a killjoy but possibly the people who have used these peoples names could use some discretion and at least edit out their surnames.

Nice helmet by the way propsculptor good luck with it .

Cheers Chris.

 

[lambotour]

Originally posted by propsculptor+Apr 7 2006, 06:18 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(propsculptor @ Apr 7 2006, 06:18 AM)</div>

All the information I get I'll post here for those interested.

<!--QuoteBegin-fettpride

@Apr 7 2006, 02:09 AM

I filled propsculptor in on what exactly it is I know about this helmet to help him out. Any further shared info will be at his discretion since it is his thread.
FP

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So what information did FP give you that you could share with us about the helmet?