Opinion Thread Vader Experts, what's the origin...

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NoHumorMan @ Apr 21 2006, 09:44 PM) [snapback]1230750[/snapback]</div>
I find this highly questionable. No one can prove where this cast came from but the guy you bought it from and the guy he bought it from all the way back to who casted it. That's the only way to get the answer to your question - that is not for me to answer. I can only give my two cents on what I think it originated from - I can NEVER prove anything, since I didn't cast it or buy it and resell it... I have no way of knowing the truth of its origin.

It could have come directly from the Jeff mold or someone could have made a cast of one of the GH family tree helmets and sold it. Who knows, but the original caster of the helmet you got. I have no way of proving whether it is either or, but it shares too many structural similarities to the GH family tree Vader helmets - especially the face - to be of anything outside that family.

Basically, it is not up to me to prove it's lineage, but basically up to you, since you are about to offer it up for sale on some, imo, very questionable grounds. You still haven't figured out its origins - not having gotten a reply back from Jeff or any other mentioned who might be the original maker, is not to be considered a green light to make casts and sell copies. Heck, the maker of this particular helmet, doesn't even HAVE to be one of the people mentioned, but could be someone who bought one of the helmets and then made a cast of it for some odd reason and then desided to sell it. The only way to find out is to ask the one you bought it from to reveal who he/she bought it from and so on back in the chain of owners. You could basically be sitting with a recast of a recast, cleaned up, sharpened, recast again. Who knows except the previous owners.?

But it still doesn't detract from the photographic evidence, which you have yourself provided that this is in no doubt a member of the GH family tree, as so clearly shown in the comparison photo by Sithlord on page 3, post 4 & RKW on the same page, post 8 in this very topic. Though there are subtle changes between the various casts there are some key features that are integral to these helmet: the nose ridges are angled the wrong way, the teeth are angled the wrong way, the cheeks are curved wrong and are going in a straight line up to the eyes, where the originals are curved, the eyes are more oval and many more minor details that are hard to correct when cleaning up the cast.

Your helmet shares these traits with the helmets in the GH family tree - that's why it can only have come from that source... any of them... in any number of ways. But the only way to get the truth is to get the truth from the one who sold it to you about where he got it from.

I'm still very surprised that you can offer casts of a helmet, which you apparently know nothing about. And since you don't know where it came from, then how can you have gotten permission to make casts of it other than from the guy you bought it from - but if he isn't the one who made the helmet, then he has absolutely NO right to give you permission to cast it.

But, since I am over-ruled in the recasting issue I will not pursue this any further. I just find it questionable, also the price you are asking for casts of this helmet, but seeing as you have no scrouples to offer this without knowing the truth about the helmet and that people will sign up to buy then I guess it won't really matter what I have to say, except that I definitely won't be signing up to buy one...

I bid you good luck in your future business, since it seems you'll be making a s**tload of money from this project.
[/b]

Exactly what I've been saying NoHumorMan :thumbsup But there are some here on the board that don't like people who are outspoken.Great too see another one who shares my views.
 
First of all I have stated who I got the Helmet from, he gave Permission to Mold it and make castings for sale, as did the person who sold it to him, That's as far back as the Origin I know of, goes.

Regardless of many claims, this particular Helmet has changed hands twice only, from the source,
to Greg, to me.

You may find this highly questionable, but you seem to be one of a few. You are also the only one a few claiming that I'm a recaster, which isn't the case since I've been given permission to make and sell castings by both the original owner AND Greg himself, as well as the Moderators of the RPF.

All you have stated is Your Opinion, Not Facts of any kind.

You said:
it is not up to me to prove it's lineage, but basically up to you[/b]

I have already done so and satisfied everyone's (Except a few) curiousity on the history of this Helmet.
I asked you to prove your point with facts and you have offered none, except for Your Opinion based on Photo comparison, that's not Proof, just a viewpoint.

But, since I am over-ruled in the recasting issue I will not pursue this any further.[/b]

This is just another time you have said that and I doubt it will be the last.

Maybe you should read your own Posts:
Originally posted by 'NoHumorMan' date= Apr 12 2006+ 03:27 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE('NoHumorMan' date= Apr 12 2006 @ 03:27 AM)</div>
Post #91

I did not know that Propsculptor had contacted the Mods before posting here. I was just surprised that an interest thread was posted so soon after the origins thread, making me feel that the origin of the helmet was somehow not as important as making copies and selling casts. I based my whole argument on the fact that it seemed as if he was planning to sell, regardless of what was figured out in the origins thread and whether he had permission from the original maker of the helmt. If this information had been shared up front - which I believe they weren't - then I wouldn't have brought up the recasting issue at all, nor having brought attention to the interest thread appearing so soon after the origin thread was started.

If I have offended anyone, then I do apologize. I was just trying to get a few things cleared up, which they now have... and I got the answers to the questions I had.

It is clear for all to see that it is NOT a GH helmet, but definitely a member of the GH ANH Vader Family Tree. There's no doubt about that. All I did was try to defend the maker of this helmet from being recast, but seeing now, as this isn't the case since the maker apparently gave his approval for copies to be made, I will back down and let things continue as they were. smile.gif[/b]

Even in this Post you stated it again:
<!--QuoteBegin-'NoHumorMan' date= Apr 12 2006
@ 07:37 AM

Post #98

If it had been revealed from the get-go that the mods had been involved even before the topic was posted and the fact that it appears that the original maker allowed propsculptor to make copies, then there would have been no talk of recasting in this topic at all - at least not from me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NoHumorMan @ Apr 21 2006, 02:44 PM) [snapback]1230750[/snapback]</div>
But, since I am over-ruled in the recasting issue I will not pursue this any further. I just find it questionable, also the price you are asking for casts of this helmet, but seeing as you have no scrouples to offer this without knowing the truth about the helmet and that people will sign up to buy then I guess it won't really matter what I have to say, except that I definitely won't be signing up to buy one...[/b]
That is where you are very wrong. I received Permission from the start, including from the RPF Mods, so your saying that I "have no scrouples", is Not only Rude, but Uncalled for.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NoHumorMan @ Apr 21 2006, 02:44 PM) [snapback]1230750[/snapback]</div>
I find this highly questionable. No one can prove where this cast came from but the guy you bought it from and the guy he bought it from all the way back to who casted it. That's the only way to get the answer to your question - that is not for me to answer. I can only give my two cents on what I think it originated from - I can NEVER prove anything, since I didn't cast it or buy it and resell it... I have no way of knowing the truth of its origin.

It could have come directly from the Jeff mold or someone could have made a cast of one of the GH family tree helmets and sold it. Who knows, but the original caster of the helmet you got. I have no way of proving whether it is either or, but it shares too many structural similarities to the GH family tree Vader helmets - especially the face - to be of anything outside that family.

Basically, it is not up to me to prove it's lineage, but basically up to you, since you are about to offer it up for sale on some, imo, very questionable grounds. You still haven't figured out its origins - not having gotten a reply back from Jeff or any other mentioned who might be the original maker, is not to be considered a green light to make casts and sell copies. Heck, the maker of this particular helmet, doesn't even HAVE to be one of the people mentioned, but could be someone who bought one of the helmets and then made a cast of it for some odd reason and then desided to sell it. The only way to find out is to ask the one you bought it from to reveal who he/she bought it from and so on back in the chain of owners. You could basically be sitting with a recast of a recast, cleaned up, sharpened, recast again. Who knows except the previous owners.?

But it still doesn't detract from the photographic evidence, which you have yourself provided that this is in no doubt a member of the GH family tree, as so clearly shown in the comparison photo by Sithlord on page 3, post 4 & RKW on the same page, post 8 in this very topic. Though there are subtle changes between the various casts there are some key features that are integral to these helmet: the nose ridges are angled the wrong way, the teeth are angled the wrong way, the cheeks are curved wrong and are going in a straight line up to the eyes, where the originals are curved, the eyes are more oval and many more minor details that are hard to correct when cleaning up the cast.

Your helmet shares these traits with the helmets in the GH family tree - that's why it can only have come from that source... any of them... in any number of ways. But the only way to get the truth is to get the truth from the one who sold it to you about where he got it from.

I'm still very surprised that you can offer casts of a helmet, which you apparently know nothing about. And since you don't know where it came from, then how can you have gotten permission to make casts of it other than from the guy you bought it from - but if he isn't the one who made the helmet, then he has absolutely NO right to give you permission to cast it.

But, since I am over-ruled in the recasting issue I will not pursue this any further. I just find it questionable, also the price you are asking for casts of this helmet, but seeing as you have no scrouples to offer this without knowing the truth about the helmet and that people will sign up to buy then I guess it won't really matter what I have to say, except that I definitely won't be signing up to buy one...

I bid you good luck in your future business, since it seems you'll be making a s**tload of money from this project.
[/b]
 
Good lord, are we dredging up the GH thing AGAIN? GH freely admitted this is NOT his helmet or ANYTHING CLOSE. Not one picture of a GH helmet even closely resembles the "Mystery Helmet" so why do we bring up GH again? There are differences between this and the Fiberdyne as well, but we won't cite those, eh? Good lord, lay off the guy already, sheesh.
 
NoHumorMan can't seem to do as he said he would, and "not pursue this any further".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Qui-Gonzalez @ Apr 21 2006, 04:54 PM) [snapback]1230794[/snapback]</div>
Good lord, are we dredging up the GH thing AGAIN? GH freely admitted this is NOT his helmet or ANYTHING CLOSE. Not one picture of a GH helmet even closely resembles the "Mystery Helmet" so why do we bring up GH again? There are differences between this and the Fiberdyne as well, but we won't cite those, eh? Good lord, lay off the guy already, sheesh.
[/b]
 
The purpose of this thread was to get opinions on the matter. And they were given. The vast majority (and, by extension, the community) is obviously of the opinion that there is no problem here--and the theoretically injured party even agrees.

Everyone's participation (from all "sides") was requested, and thus their participation has been appreciated. But the community has spoken. There is no need to debate it further.
 
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