How was Vader's helmet modified from ANH to ESB to ROTJ
- Thread starter Darth Africanus
- Start date
Guys for someone who is inexperienced with this, (myself included) can we get a key explaining all the initials?
GS
TM
For example?
I would love for all this info to be ironed out and put in the first post, this would be great collection of info saved for future searches
GS
TM
For example?
I would love for all this info to be ironed out and put in the first post, this would be great collection of info saved for future searches
vader45
Sr Member
They simply are owners initials of the original casts that were copied.
Aahhh thank you
Darth Africanus
Sr Member
I didn't add the VP for it didn't fall under a mold as far as I know im not sure if it should fall in its own class
It does come far along related to the UK mold if im not mistaken but im not sure where does the VP come from
there wasn't a whole lot info on the VP I could find I will have a look again
But I will make a seprate page for the lineage helmets in fandom's possession
From what I know its a ROTJ mask.But with the ESB "worms"still in the casting.
Darth Africanus
Sr Member
Yes that is also as I have it but it doesn't have the 3tabs on the top did you only get the mask or did you get it with a dome?
The dome was rotj as well
I believe the vp also had the small anh bottom chin vent if I'm not mistaken
I think the VP is uniquely rotj and is perhaps and this is my speculation a helmet from a Rotj mold if I had to speculate and just throw a idea out there
I got only the mask .But you are right...the VP has a small ANH chin vent normally.The 3tabs could be sanded away before casting.Or it could be really complete different cast of a ROTJ/ESB mask.
Darth Africanus
Sr Member
My thoughts as well I wish I could have all the facts about all the vader helmets out there but I guess that is the fun to piece it all together as best we can. Awesome man enjoy that VP wish I could get my hands on one Rotj vader is what I live for [emoji16][emoji16]
I'm of the opinion that the VP face/mask is from the UK mold. I think that the "master" VP mask casting was partially cleaned up by its owner who sanded off the 3M tabs and started a sort of general cleanup removing the chin drip and other globs that, at the time, were seen as flaws. A copy was made during its partial cleanup and this copy is the casting that has made it into the fan pool.
I don't own a VP but I've had the opportunity to work on one and examine it closely compared with a TM (which certainly has its own controversial issues) and other helmets so that's what I'm basing my best guess on. I can't speak to the dome/helmet as I've never seen one in hand but it certainly looks more RotJ than not. If the VP master castings were sourced simultaneously I'd say it has a similar RotJ timeline to the GS helmet which also seems to have the UK mold face mask and the RotJ style dome combination -- or the same source masters since it's been observed that RotJ style domes were in existence before production of Jedi.
Dave
I don't own a VP but I've had the opportunity to work on one and examine it closely compared with a TM (which certainly has its own controversial issues) and other helmets so that's what I'm basing my best guess on. I can't speak to the dome/helmet as I've never seen one in hand but it certainly looks more RotJ than not. If the VP master castings were sourced simultaneously I'd say it has a similar RotJ timeline to the GS helmet which also seems to have the UK mold face mask and the RotJ style dome combination -- or the same source masters since it's been observed that RotJ style domes were in existence before production of Jedi.
Dave
Darth Africanus
Sr Member
I read a thread where the ROTJ mold was once discussed if it existed or if the ROTJ helmets were only carried over ESB helmets repurposed for ROTJ
can the VP not perhaps be pointing it came from a ROTJ specific mold perhaps this is only pure speculation
But perhaps the production casted these helmets and removed the tabs completely and then added the new ROTJ dome mount
and cut out the larger chin vent
It is pure speculation unless there is definitive evidence that the owner of the VP mask helmet from which the master came had a UK mold casting in pure form as we know
or is the VP Original perhaps a mask from the ROTJ mold and was prepped for the production and then it ended up in private hands
But yes by all logic and the evidence it would point the VP is a cleaned up version from the UK mold
so it would belong to that tree in the lineage .But would it not be interesting if the original VP before copies were made came cleaned up like that from a "ROTJ MOLD"
vader45
Sr Member
Just maybe. I'm making a guess. The ROTJ helmets were made around or right after ESB production. A new dome mold was needed but still used the same face mold. Something must have happened to the ESB dome mold.
Hence the TM and GS sharing ESB worms but are paired with ROTJ domes.
The theory of them making two domes and picking one sounds sill to me.
Hence the TM and GS sharing ESB worms but are paired with ROTJ domes.
The theory of them making two domes and picking one sounds sill to me.
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Darth Africanus
Sr Member
Hey everyone so while im still busy going through old threads to find all the info for this thread to update it and improve it I though I would make a quick lineage chart of all the helmets that exist and are technically floating around and available if one can find it and so on
These are strictly the closest helmets related to the Movie used props that are so to say "Available"
I did not include fan cast's because they are a modge podge of lineage and it can swamp the line and confuse
RED Line shows the screen used line and its clear source line
Blue are the related authentic casts to that particular red line helmet
Orange are the USA mold off shoots of the Original ANH helmet
Hopefully this is a clear lineage line that makes it easy for everyone to see how the helmet's out there fit into the puzzle how they relate to the originals
there are other cast's floating around that are not on my line that fit into the authentic cast line
but either they are not really casts that anyone could own or they haven't been really released to the public that are really rare that anybody could obtain them so I would wait as such time that they are revealed that one can add them to the line or perhaps in my own quest to collect Vader items I come across them and it is revealed how they fit in the line and I have gained sufficient knowledge on them they will be added
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Genius idea
Darth Africanus
Sr Member
Thanks man !
Here's photos of my raw VP cast. You can see the sanding marks where the 3M tabs were removed on top of the mask.
I don't think it's ROTJ. Looks ANH all the way to me.
I don't think it's ROTJ. Looks ANH all the way to me.
Attachments
I think TD and SL are the same person. I've got those photos you included for both sent to me by SL himself whose real initials are TD.
Darth Africanus
Sr Member
Beautiful mask Would give an arm and a leg to get hold of a VP amazing piece
Yes the mask is related to the ANH UK mold all masks on that line started out as ANH masks with the tabs on top etc
Why I put the VP to be related to the Original ROTJ is it has all the hallmarks of what is believed to be unique to ROTJ helmets
That the ROTJ casts where very much cleaned up and believed to be smaller than the other cast's of the lineage tree
hallmarks the VP posses and then the larger chin vent was hancut after the cast was made
as well the Dome that was paired with the father of the VP was a ROTJ dome
so in my mind evidence points that the VP came from a source intending it to be a ROTJ helmet
Perhaps a mold unique to ROTJ
Darth Africanus
Sr Member
Yes same person but the TD AND SL are two different masks The SL being the cast from the rick baker mold
and the TD evidence points to being from the UK mold
hence the differing initials being used although they originate from the same owner
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