How was Vader's helmet modified from ANH to ESB to ROTJ

[Imperial Weapon]

I stopped having birthday's when I was 18 so nothing to remember other than that lol

Just like Star Wars no one celebrates there own birthday.

 

[Darth Africanus]

I up -scaled this photo finally

 

[Sym-Cha]

The screen-used Vader faceplates I‘ve handled in the archives back in 1995 had amber gels taped to the eyelenses.

dcarty I just wonder if these amber gels prevented the eyelenses from fogging up on screen ... now I realise that Dave Prowse never trooped for long in his helmet during filming ... yet when my Vader was just on patrol for 5 minutes they fogged up real easy as you can see here :

Chaïm

 

[Imperial Weapon]

I up -scaled this photo finally

View attachment 1595892

stunning makes me wanna see a real metal vader even more, it even shows the airbuble flaws in the lenses and how there slightly uneven so the ski goggle thing is either a myth or used on a different movie or a tour helmet(s).

 

[Darth Africanus]

stunning makes me wanna see a real metal vader even more, it even shows the airbuble flaws in the lenses and how there slightly uneven so the ski goggle thing is either a myth or used on a different movie or a tour helmet(s).

Yes definitely and I went and reread the part where Brian Muir said he sculpted the bubble lens in clay to the mask already and they used it as a buck to custom form the lenses so yea the thing I read about the ski goggles was somebody carrying over a myth clearly well at least that is now put to bed perhaps a tour helmet but doubtful will have to find the whole ski goggle thread again I forget were I find all this so many pages I have read

A full metal Vader would be awesome especially if it looked exactly like the sculpted helmet and could be thin but one would really need a robot neck just to put on such a piece lol

 

[Darth Africanus]

dcarty I just wonder if these amber gels prevented the eyelenses from fogging up on screen ... now I realise that Dave Prowse never trooped for long in his helmet during filming ... yet when my Vader was just on patrol for 5 minutes they fogged up real easy as you can see here :

View attachment 1595926

Chaïm

There is an interview where Prowse say's they had to constantly take of the mask and clean the eyes because it was fogging up lol

 

[Imperial Weapon]

Yes definitely and I went and reread the part where Brian Muir said he sculpted the bubble lens in clay to the mask already and they used it as a buck to custom form the lenses so yea the thing I read about the ski goggles was somebody carrying over a myth clearly well at least that is now put to bed perhaps a tour helmet but doubtful will have to find the whole ski goggle thread again I forget were I find all this so many pages I have read

A full metal Vader would be awesome especially if it looked exactly like the sculpted helmet and could be thin but one would really need a robot neck just to put on such a piece lol

Maybe not if its aluminium or mild steel I think It would be possible from pepakura templates but I've never seen Proper OT styled asymetric Pepakura helmets

 

[dcarty]

dcarty I just wonder if these amber gels prevented the eyelenses from fogging up on screen ... now I realise that Dave Prowse never trooped for long in his helmet during filming ... yet when my Vader was just on patrol for 5 minutes they fogged up real easy as you can see here :

Chaïm

Hi Chaim,

I think fogged up lenses are an occupational hazard for masked Sith Lords, lol

Cheers!

Dave

 

[Too Much Garlic]

It was all the paint chipping at the top part of the face mask not showing up on either of the two lineages of helmets that made me start questioning the idea that any of them were molded before the repaint. Sure, the chipping looks faint and may not leave much of a mark... but they left NONE whereas details further down that seem just as faint on the original was preserved... exactly how it is on the repaint... but which mold came first was up for debate for a long time, but in my view... that seems clear to me now that the Baker mold was first, and I sadly held the belief and argued for, for a long time, that it came after. So I was part of the problem not moving forward.

Now that helps the story greatly and makes a good difference in the series of event's and I'm glad you took the time to lay it out.
as for some time the concept of UK mold has been confusing to even me as I could no where find confirmation that this mold was a UK origin mold before rick baker. And I could see with my eyes my TM had details seen on the Grunberg face mask which made no sense unless the mask had those tells right after ANH production which I could see from photo's and all information gathered it had not.

But I kept it to myself as I thought I missed the authentic cast discussion where this all was laid out and I keep my word to remain silent about the intricacies especially if I don't find publics talk about it. but now it all makes sense if you lay it out like that that the "UK" Mold was after the ANH had acquired the wear we now see on the Grunberg photo's

I wanted to go back to this. Never be afraid to openly point out things you observe that doesn't seem to fit with the established story of the piece. When you stop yourself, it stops progress towards the truth of the piece. Sure, it can lead to heated debates and with people digging ditches to stand their ground, but if the observations are sound, well thought out and explained, it can help move things forward instead of keeping things locked in what amounts to futility without progress.

I'm sad you felt you had to keep quiet.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

View attachment 1595150

It was the crack down the side of the mask in this picture that was the final proof for me.
That crack is not in the Don Post pictures or on the Baker casts - some see it faintly, so it may have started to form there - but it is clear as day on the "UK Mold" helmets.

Crap... what should we start calling the "UK Mold"?

 

[Darth Africanus]

It was all the paint chipping at the top part of the face mask not showing up on either of the two lineages of helmets that made me start questioning the idea that any of them were molded before the repaint. Sure, the chipping looks faint and may not leave much of a mark... but they left NONE whereas details further down that seem just as faint on the original was preserved... exactly how it is on the repaint... but which mold came first was up for debate for a long time, but in my view... that seems clear to me now that the Baker mold was first, and I sadly held the belief and argued for, for a long time, that it came after. So I was part of the problem not moving forward.


I wanted to go back to this. Never be afraid to openly point out things you observe that doesn't seem to fit with the established story of the piece. When you stop yourself, it stops progress towards the truth of the piece. Sure, it can lead to heated debates and with people digging ditches to stand their ground, but if the observations are sound, well thought out and explained, it can help move things forward instead of keeping things locked in what amounts to futility without progress.

I'm sad you felt you had to keep quiet.

We al believe something or other that we hold on too dearly just to later realize we had not needed to do so my friend.
It is how we progress and grow to look back at the past and learn not to do so again going forward we all share this trait we are al the same more than we are different don't see it as a bad thing.

At the time you had your believe backed up by others and as we all know one can get lost in the crowd and forget to stop and think it out and say what you think even if it goes against the grain and today I have learned from you it is okay to say what you trully think even if it upset's others for awhile .

Thank you my friend I will take this advice to heart and mind. It is also in part I'm trying to be respectful to those who can look at the authentic cast's As well and say the truth I feel in part it, is also up to the Vader community the wonderful people who have studied vader and own lineage pieces to also come to the fore and open up and speak about it and I would love to give them all the chance.

The day's of SL-Gino war's are over and recaster's will recast as long as the temptation is there to make money of off a authentic cast someone out there will sell it to a recaster or recast his own cast so we all have now seen there is no stopping it So I believe the awesome history off Vader should be shared now and all can partake in it peacefully but that is my believe and I would keep my promise out of respect for those who ask until they decide to share I will afford them that.

But I will definitely take to heart what you say because it is true to state the obvious on helmet details we can see in photo's and to make clear observation point's and to share details seen ,should not be something someone has to feel they need to keep quite about even if it might be sensitive to some thank you Carsten

 

[Darth Africanus]

It was the crack down the side of the mask in this picture that was the final proof for me.
That crack is not in the Don Post pictures or on the Baker casts - some see it faintly, so it may have started to form there - but it is clear as day on the "UK Mold" helmets.

Crap... what should we start calling the "UK Mold"?

Yes it might have started forming just before the rick backer mold but was probably not the full on crack as in the Grunberg photo
and I have evidence it was there faintly before the Grunberg crack

The OT production mold. I think would be best because technically you can get all 3 OT Vader helmet's from this mold with work for the ESB/ROTJ helmet's and just to put back new tabs for ANH

 

[craigjohn]

It was the crack down the side of the mask in this picture that was the final proof for me.
That crack is not in the Don Post pictures or on the Baker casts - some see it faintly, so it may have started to form there - but it is clear as day on the "UK Mold" helmets.

Crap... what should we start calling the "UK Mold"?

Throwing a wrench in this a bit - As has been noted on the Prop Den, Juan has mentioned details on some of the Rick Baker casts that were molded and cast for "limited buyers" (SL as an example) - were altered. I don't think we can make any definitive claim that the UK Mold was cast AFTER the Rick Baker mold. You would need to see the original SL Thomas bought off eBay, or the original EFX cast pulled from RB mold before it was altered ad nauseam.

...Edit to ad: I love this thread - as it's a great learning experience about the Vader helmets. Even to this day, there is still so much we don't know.

 

[Darth Africanus]

Throwing a wrench in this a bit - As has been noted on the Prop Den, Juan has mentioned details on some of the Rick Baker casts that were molded and cast for "limited buyers" (SL as an example) - were altered. I don't think we can make any definitive claim that the UK Mold was cast AFTER the Rick Baker mold. You would need to see the original SL Thomas bought off eBay, or the original EFX cast pulled from RB mold before it was altered ad nauseam.

...Edit to ad: I love this thread - as it's a great learning experience about the Vader helmets. Even to this day, there is still so much we don't know.

Yes definitely a good point and I am sure Juan could give some good answer's to this debacle perhaps if he felt the time was right. But Carsten does make excellent observation's and point to good evidence that support's his hypothesis

But I'm sure this might be cleared up for us all, as it is important to know the story in full no shadowy part's any more would be nice.

Thank you my friend ! I am so glad I could have started this for everyone my only hope it bring's much joy to many Vader fan's for a long time

 

[teecrooz]

I’ve talked with him in great detail over many years and I don’t think you’ll see juajn7fernandez giving away all the secrets anytime soon. There are still recasters (ShadowFX) that tout their wares as being the most accurate and from the same lineage and it is because certain details have been kept close to the chest that his casts are still able to be identified. He has incorrectly incorporated some of the faked SL details in some of his older offerings and now is also selling recasts of the DJ after Thomas was so kind to allow it to be offered more openly. I’d say that one guy is the reason we can’t all have nice things.

 

[Imperial Weapon]

Yes it might have started forming just before the rick backer mold but was probably not the full on crack as in the Grunberg photo
and I have evidence it was there faintly before the Grunberg crack

The OT production mold. I think would be best because technically you can get all 3 OT Vader helmet's from this mold with work for the ESB/ROTJ helmet's and just to put back new tabs for ANH

what about ROTJ that had a smaller dome right?

 

[Darth Africanus]

I’ve talked with him in great detail over many years and I don’t think you’ll see juajn7fernandez giving away all the secrets anytime soon. There are still recasters (ShadowFX) that tout their wares as being the most accurate and from the same lineage and it is because certain details have been kept close to the chest that his casts are still able to be identified. He has incorrectly incorporated some of the faked SL details in some of his older offerings and now is also selling recasts of the DJ after Thomas was so kind to allow it to be offered more openly. I’d say that one guy is the reason we can’t all have nice things.

Sadly yes you are right, that is why out of respect and honoring to those I will wait until they share the rest openly as there is more to all but it's not my place to speak about it as of now.

But I also believe that there should start to be moved past this and we should enjoy Vader as a community as that is where the fun is.
it's nice looking at my TM but if nobody ells can fully appreciate it as much as me it just becomes a thing lol and I would love to have everyone who love Vader appreciate and partake in the full Vader history for his most important part the helmet.

Yes and there is now a guy that has recasted the TM in the end they will get their hands on these pieces one way or another so might as well have nice things could be another way of looking at it.

But also I don't wish that one guy to get what he want's and make money off of it so I understand why we can't have nice things

 

[Darth Africanus]

what about ROTJ that had a smaller dome right?

There is good cause to believe that the ROTJ dome existed in ESB production already so they molded it
as the GS Dome is an out of mold ROTJ dome that shows the ROTJ dome has it's own mold if im correct. but it was probably not way smaller than the original ANH perhaps only slightly

 

[Imperial Weapon]

I’ve talked with him in great detail over many years and I don’t think you’ll see juajn7fernandez giving away all the secrets anytime soon. There are still recasters (ShadowFX) that tout their wares as being the most accurate and from the same lineage and it is because certain details have been kept close to the chest that his casts are still able to be identified. He has incorrectly incorporated some of the faked SL details in some of his older offerings and now is also selling recasts of the DJ after Thomas was so kind to allow it to be offered more openly. I’d say that one guy is the reason we can’t all have nice things.

it makes me laugh how SPFX recasted that DJ ANH helmet (maybe he changed a few things IDK) and then ***** on the Mike Warren when thats a purer DJ helmet

DISCLAIMER: For those who don't know MW did have permission to sell DJ helmets

 

[Imperial Weapon]

There is good cause to believe that the ROTJ dome existed in ESB production already so they molded it
as the GS Dome is an out of mold ROTJ dome that shows the ROTJ dome has it's own mold if im correct. but it was probably not way smaller than the original ANH perhaps only slightly

so a good sand all over the origunal will do the trick?