Dreads - The Continuing Saga...

[seahunterr]

Hey steve
Get a trial size of the flex foam 6 , its only 25.00 + or -
I've tried the tc 265 with varied results, and it sets up VERY fast.
After trying 7 different types of foams these two are best.

 

[wonko]

Hey steve
Get a trial size of the flex foam 6 , its only 25.00 + or -
I've tried the tc 265 with varied results, and it sets up VERY fast.
After trying 7 different types of foams these two are best.

I'm gonna have to agree with the FF 6.  Gives me the best, most consistent results.

Brian 

 

[ptgreek]

another product heads up guys. This is the stuff that many people in the industry swear by. I personally havent had any experience with it. Unfortunately as a studio we have our account suppliers, and MPFX isnt one of them, but honestly ..from what ive heard, they are know for their foam.

http://www.motionpicturefx.com/Pro-Foam-Self-Skinning-Gallon-Kit-10023.htm

couldnt hurt to give them a call and ask about the product.

As for the Burman's foam ..play with the ratios a bit ( especially if you add colorant ) all kind of conditions go into the perfect foam mix..rate of mixing ..outside temp, etc.

The Flex foam series is great ..yet honestly anything over a 5 isnt anywhere near as soft as Bambooie's dreads. flex Foam X is basicallly "nerf" like in weight ..and all the lines above that actually get hard enough to tool with a dremel.

Ive actually turned  predominantly to the smooth on line for anything that needs to be foam backed ..it collapses on itself nicely ..and still keeps its flexibility, however the price and fact that they arent true skinning foams have still kept me away from using them for foam only castings.

cant wait to see how your mold turns out ..you are very meticulous in your set up, and it has seemd to prove rewarding ..so im sure you will have success

 

[BonzRus]

Ahhh....this is great! I love the dialogue on this. So Brian, you are no longer iffy on the FF 6? What has helped you to decide that? Gene, I probably will try the FF 6 trial size and now George intoduces another potential candidate...I love having all the options. Would you recommend a particular ratio to try on the TC-266? I know that the video tutorial they have on using their flexible foams said something about the foam characteristics and how a tall skinny mold has more resistence to the foam rising which can impact how it behaves as well. Any thoughts or experiences with that? I hope to have the silicone mold completed by next week so I can start playing with the foam. Thanks for the votes of confidence and for your recommendations.

Steve

 

[wonko]

The biggest deciding factor on the FF 6 is the amount of success I've had with it.  The burman stuff has just been way to "hit or miss" for me.  I got tired of getting 2 good dreads and 1 bad one.  I still love the FF 10 mixed at the different ratio, but they are heavier than the ones made with the FF 6.  My plan is to use the FF 10 for display purposes, and go with the 6 for mask use.  The thing about the 6 is you don't get the same movement when making closer to screen accurate dreads (they were like 20-22" if I'm not mistaken) which is what I'm going for.  The long dreads (IMO) look goofy, and take away from the "fierce" look.  So I guess it's a give and take.  I got tired of wasting foam, and have settled for what I get with the 6.  

Now then, the stuff George posted looks very interesting, and I'm always willing to try new things, so I may get some and have a go with it.  I want to try and contact them to let them know what I'm doing and get their opinions on it.  The other thing I'm wondering is how it works when adding the tint (or if they can do it for you).  If/when I hear from them I'll be sure and pass along the info.  

Brian

 

[made007]

I got a dbp1 on a trade, and it was foamed, the foam was very soft and lightweight, when i asked what foam was that, it was smooth on flex foam it 3 mixed with less catalyst for more flexibility, i def want to try it too, im looking to test all the materials i can , its good to get some knowledge on new stuff

 

[BonzRus]

I can tell I will be doing a lot of playing around with ratios and backpressure. Fun times ahead...thanks for the feedback Brian. I too would be curious to find out more about the Pro Foam. I would assume the 4lb density?

Steve

 

[Eaglewood]

Steve, I tried the back pressure with my molds as well, and found that it didnt create the type of feel I wanted-- seemed to be too stiff with the FF6-  I have to say I have had the best results with the FF6-- I actually hang them and give them a quick spray with the Plasti-Dip spray and they turn out great, thus curing the self skinning problem that George mentioned.
I just got 2 new gallons of the FF^ and  for some reason I was getting stiffer dreads and they were not expanding as much. My shop stays pretty much the same temp, etc but no matter what I tried, I couldnt get it to work right. I went to my Smooth on dealer and we did some test and got the same results-- We sent the gallon back to smooth on for testing and they said that it was either a temperature or humidity thing. I had a little left from a previous batch so I mixed it up and n problems at all.


Also when mixing the FF6 , I mix it by weight--not volume as they say. We tried it both ways at my Smooth-On dealer when testing and it is so close you really cant tell the difference. It actually was a bit stiffer mixing by volume.

So I am not sure what the problem was, but they are sending it all back to me and I will try it again with the conditions they recommend, temp, etc and see what happened.
I may have to give this stuff a try that George talked about.


Steve, I know the Mold Max 27 T is pretty stiff, so I hope it stay straight for you without the PVC shell. I am anxious to see if it releases for you from the mold without tearing. They get pretty touchy at the skinny end. Let me know how it works.

I will consider doing a full tutorial on how I do these as well and putting it up--  When I get my CNC machine hooked upI may actually machine some aluminum or plastic molds to do the dreads in. That way It can be really controlled with a good clean shutoff and hopefully no seam lines. We will see.

OK-- Let see it Steve!!!!


PS just ordered the Foam George talked about as well as some of the regular 4lb.  Ill try it and see what we get!

 

[ptgreek]

Clay ..if i remember correctly Joe had aluminum molds. they close so well that there was no real seam. Steve, my concern with using the mold max without a mother mold is that your actual silicone should be much thicker then those pipes.  If you are planning on using back pressure, im afraid that the expansion will push those walls out. You can honestly just cut that PVC lengthwise..then use a large hose clamp as a strap. Its more of a "better be safe then sorry" thing having some sort of jacket rather then non at all. Also ..be careful with using spray releases on Flex Foam ..you will see it having adverse effects..consult your Reynolds or smooth on rep about what you should do  ..they have a paintable release that works better ..cant remember its name

Clay let us know what you think of the Motion Picture FX foam ..

 

[wonko]

be careful with using spray releases on Flex Foam ..you will see it having adverse effects

I learned this the hard way after thinking it would help with releasing the dread without splitting it (no seam).  I washed my molds well, but still lost several dreads until all the MR was out.  I discovered that the FF worked better without release since it doesn't really skin like a true self skinning foam.  Another thing I discovered is that it took virtually no back pressure  for the FF 6 (or 10 for that matter) to get a decent dread.  In fact, when pouring the 10, I don't use any at all (mixed in a ratio of 2:1 instead of 1:1).  One foam that I still think is promising that I've played with is the Kryolan stuff.  Aside from the fact that it likes things hot, it skins well and is super light weight.  If I do any more experimenting it will be with that. My plan is to set up my spray booth as a "controlled environment", keeping it around 100 degrees with as low humidity as I can get, in hopes that the foam will be happy and cooperate.  

Brian

 

[ptgreek]

brian ..since the heat is only really a factor in its "kick" time, try heating the silicone up with a heat gun first ..see how that does ya

 

[BonzRus]

This is all such a good discussion. Sorry it sounds like you had a bad batch of foam Clay but it is certainly interesting to hear what you have experienced. George I guess my idea of back pressure is that it wouldn't take much but not having any experience with this I certainly will be splitting the PVC tubes such that they could be clamped back around the silicone. I was planning not to use any mold release at first and see what happens. This is all really good advise though. This is the first time I have heard that Joe used aluminum molds...WOW! I am doing this to learn and that others may learn from it just like Brian. I have a long way to go and certainly do not expect success right off the bat. Thanks for all the help guys...I really appreciate it.

Steve

 

[made007]

Good luck bonz

 

[BonzRus]

Thanks Jose. We shall see how this adventure progresses very soon I hope.

Steve

 

[Eaglewood]

Clay ..if i remember correctly Joe had aluminum molds. they close so well that there was no real seam. Steve, my concern with using the mold max without a mother mold is that your actual silicone should be much thicker then those pipes.  If you are planning on using back pressure, im afraid that the expansion will push those walls out. You can honestly just cut that PVC lengthwise..then use a large hose clamp as a strap. Its more of a "better be safe then sorry" thing having some sort of jacket rather then non at all. Also ..be careful with using spray releases on Flex Foam ..you will see it having adverse effects..consult your Reynolds or smooth on rep about what you should do  ..they have a paintable release that works better ..cant remember its name

Clay let us know what you think of the Motion Picture FX foam ..

George is absolutely correct on the spray release-- I would recommend NOT using it as it never seemed to work right-The release I use is a paintable as well-- 2891 or something like that-Ill find the number for sure- works great with no adverse effects at all. Lasts for quite a few dreads as well.
As far as the aluminum molds, I know from being in the industry that you can have them close so tightly that there is virtually no "flash" as they call it in the molding shops.
I am pretty sure that is what I will do as well. For the straight smooth dreads it would be no problem, but sor the sectioned ones it would b e a little tougher as I would have to actually draw the dreads up in the CAD program and then cut them the same way-- Would be a long process, but doable. On the good end of it I would have molds that would last pretty much forever.

And again, George is correct-- If you try to scrimp on the silicone and do not use a PVC or similar "mother mold", you will get expansion if you try to create backpressure and it will distort the mold. Steve, use the PVC shell to save yourself some headaches even if you are not using a split mold. I think you will find that the backpressure technique is not needed. I remember seeing the dread molds at K& M studios for the Predators movie and they were split molds and there was no backpressure used as there was foam all over the sides of the mold where it was allowed to just flow up and out. You will get it dialed in as exactly how much to mix for each mold. I have it down pretty much to a science with the FF6.


I should have the Motion Picture foam next week-- maybe a good time for a Huntorial-----

Loving this thread

 

[seahunterr]

George is right about the mold release, it makes a big difference. The 200 seems to work good. I cleaned molds with alcohol and had several muffed dreads, so the foams are sensitive to several things. Temps in the mid 70's seem to work best for me. Great info on this topic!

 

[BonzRus]

I got the silicone mold made over the weekend so I now have the mold ready to go to the point I can start playing with the foam. I split the PVC jacket which can be clamped back around it if I want to experiment with the back pressure but first I will do some free rise tests to get an idea how much foam to mix up. The plug was easily removed from the mold without splitting it by pressurizing the end with a tire pump and a taperred attachment that came with it. It inflated the silicone like a balloon and the plug came right out. I will first try something smaller than the paracord to help remove the foam dread and will find out how the air pressure will affect the foam but the next step is to mix up some foam and start pouring. Here are a few shots of my mold.

Making the forms and pouring the end cap.

Plug removed with the help of a tire pump.

The mold can be suspended with the PVC jacket clamped on or without it and can employ back pressure or be free rise so I have plenty of configurations to play with.

Steve

 

[Eaglewood]

always innovative Steve--  With your permission I may try some of these techniques for the sectioned dreads as well.

 

[BonzRus]

Be my guest Clay. I have no claim to the processes and I hope others are able to learn as much as I am. I haven't even poured the first dread and I am already thinking about how I would make a multi-dread mold or be able to quickly duplicate what I have done. The taperred PVC sections do help reduce the amount of silicone used but I am not sure they are worth the trouble. Maybe after I pour some foam I will be able to better determine that. My smaller dreads could simply be placed in a straight piece of PVC for example. it was definitely cool watching the silicone inflate around the dread from the tip to the base. It was just like blowing up one of those long skinny balloons used to make balloon animals.    I have also looked into the BJB TC-1651 as a means of making a rigid split mold. It is an aluminum filled epoxy casting resin. I am also thinking of trying just plain old polyester resin and fiberglass matt to make a rigid mold. There is really so many ways to do this and therefore lots to think about.

Steve

 

[Eaglewood]

Be my guest Clay. I have no claim to the processes and I hope others are able to learn as much as I am. I haven't even poured the first dread and I am already thinking about how I would make a multi-dread mold or be able to quickly duplicate what I have done. The taperred PVC sections do help reduce the amount of silicone used but I am not sure they are worth the trouble. Maybe after I pour some foam I will be able to better determine that. My smaller dreads could simply be placed in a straight piece of PVC for example. it was definitely cool watching the silicone inflate around the dread from the tip to the base. It was just like blowing up one of those long skinny balloons used to make balloon animals.    I have also looked into the BJB TC-1651 as a means of making a rigid split mold. It is an aluminum filled epoxy casting resin. I am also thinking of trying just plain old polyester resin and fiberglass matt to make a rigid mold. There is really so many ways to do this and therefore lots to think about.

Steve

Steve,
maybe all of this will go away when I get my machine up and running and I can create some tight molds!!!!!