Obi-Wan Kenobi Episode 1 Resin Stunt Lightsaber Research

[AnubisGuard]

Each part was vigorously shaken/mixed within its own containers then thoroughly mixed when combined.

Not a resin casting expert at all but I've watched a lot of videos on the process on YouTube – I believe shaking is going to introduce a lot of bubbles, and I assume you can't degas your resin without a compressor*. That your casts are catching that many bubbles suggests both that there's many trapped in the resin when you pour it, and that the mold may not be properly vented to allow the air to rise out as you pour.

*I know people usually degas silicone and put resin in a pressure pot, but some degas the resin directly if it has a lot of bubbles in it.

 

[DRambo87]

On the bright side, I did find some decent options for painting the red button and brass knob.

The resin sabers in these pictures are all Tamiya silver and Tamiya or Duplicolor black.

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Looks phenomenal! Especially the red on the button!! What was the red you used?

 

[Dewy]

Not a resin casting expert at all but I've watched a lot of videos on the process on YouTube – I believe shaking is going to introduce a lot of bubbles, and I assume you can't degas your resin without a compressor*. That your casts are catching that many bubbles suggests both that there's many trapped in the resin when you pour it, and that the mold may not be properly vented to allow the air to rise out as you pour.

*I know people usually degas silicone and put resin in a pressure pot, but some degas the resin directly if it has a lot of bubbles in it.

I definitely don’t think it’s a venting issue, the bubbles are too fine and are forming even in smooth totally vertical sections of the mold. I definitely could have waiting longer after shaking the components, but by the time I did the second pour it had been over an hour. What I’m noticing is when I measure out the A and B, each component separately doesn’t have bubbles, it’s when I combine them. Even before I stir. Maybe it really is just too humid? I’m just hoping the pressure pot will get rid of them.

 

[Dewy]

Looks phenomenal! Especially the red on the button!! What was the red you used?

It’s one of the small Tamiya lacquer bottles LP-46 metallic red. I bought 5 different reds to try and of the 3 I have tried, this was the best so far. I’ll post all the painting info once I’ve got it all nailed down.

 

[DRambo87]

You could take a trip and bring it to my garage in Phoenix;-D you won't have a problem with humidity lol

 

[Excelsior]

I definitely don’t think it’s a venting issue, the bubbles are too fine and are forming even in smooth totally vertical sections of the mold. I definitely could have waiting longer after shaking the components, but by the time I did the second pour it had been over an hour. What I’m noticing is when I measure out the A and B, each component separately doesn’t have bubbles, it’s when I combine them. Even before I stir. Maybe it really is just too humid? I’m just hoping the pressure pot will get rid of them.

On the east coast it's been ridiculously humid. I have a dehumidifier running in my shop 24/7 right now. I empty about 8 gallons of water out of it every morning.

Bubbles mean gases are getting trapped. Venting is important, even with a pressure pot. If you're still getting bad bubbles with the pressure pot, maybe try a dehumidifier.

 

[Saberz]

It’s one of the small Tamiya lacquer bottles LP-46 metallic red. I bought 5 different reds to try and of the 3 I have tried, this was the best so far. I’ll post all the painting info once I’ve got it all nailed down.

The red is tricky. And photos don’t always capture what we imagine the color is in our mind. Plus, the painted red buttons are NOT a great match to the anodized red of the original port plug. The painted buttons are closer to maroon than red.

There is a virtually perfect match in Rustoleum Satin Claret Wine 334062. I went through a LOT of different paint options, and even considered mixing custom paint, before finding that product which is basically perfect. Dewy I believe you own one of my Project M hilts. The red buttons on those hilts were anodized red, but then also painted with that color on top.

You can see how stark the difference is, comparing a painted resin button with its more maroon hue, to a nice anodized button with its much brighter red.

Original Prop with painted button (Left) vs Project M with painted button (Right):

Project M with painted button:

Original Prop with painted button (Top) vs Project O1 anodized button (bottom):

 

[Saberz]

The part looks like aluminum to me. It appears to be a white metal, not gray like steel.

If it were steel, then the propmaker would have had to make a steel replica of the found aluminum part just for this saber only. Very unlikely. Steel takes a lot longer to machine than aluminum. Plus this part looks identical in its dimensions to all the other aluminum bezel parts on these TPM props. It would be impressive on the part of the propmaker to make that perfect of a replica just for this one resin saber. And if they ran out of the original found parts and had to make a replica, it wouldn't make sense to do it in steel. The propmaker would choose aluminum because it's a lot easier to cut, not to mention the same material as the part he'd be replicating.

There is some weathering and oxidation visible, but nothing that stands out specifically as rust on the outer bezel. We do, however, see the reddish rust on the fender washer and threaded rod--both of which are confirmed to have been steel:

I'm pretty confident that those conical end rings are steel, and moreover that they are a found item. They feature prominently across a lot of different hilts (Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Kitt Fisto, etc.) and were metal on all the original props on each saber in which they appear. We don't see that kind of consistency on any other Episode I sabers unless it's a found item.

 

[Dewy]

I'm pretty confident that those conical end rings are steel, and moreover that they are a found item. They feature prominently across a lot of different hilts (Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Kitt Fisto, etc.) and were metal on all the original props on each saber in which they appear. We don't see that kind of consistency on any other Episode I sabers unless it's a found item.

Some of them definitely look aluminum to me, and the Obi TPM version has that extra lip that the QGJ saber does not. I do think it was a found part, BUT it wouldn’t shock me if they just machined a bunch to replicate the found item given how simple of a part it is.

 

[DRambo87]

The red is tricky. And photos don’t always capture what we imagine the color is in our mind. Plus, the painted red buttons are NOT a great match to the anodized red of the original port plug. The painted buttons are closer to maroon than red.

There is a virtually perfect match in Rustoleum Satin Claret Wine 334062. I went through a LOT of different paint options, and even considered mixing custom paint, before finding that product which is basically perfect. Dewy I believe you own one of my Project M hilts. The red buttons on those hilts were anodized red, but then also painted with that color on top.

You can see how stark the difference is, comparing a painted resin button with its more maroon hue, to a nice anodized button with its much brighter red.

Original Prop with painted button (Left) vs Project M with painted button (Right):
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Project M with painted button:
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Original Prop with painted button (Top) vs Project O1 anodized button (bottom):
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As far as looks, for me, that metallic red looks the best and matches the anodized red button, also makes the saber's silver pop a bit more. But obviously if you're going for an actual stunt prop appearance then your route is the way, Nick

 

[Dewy]

The red is tricky. And photos don’t always capture what we imagine the color is in our mind. Plus, the painted red buttons are NOT a great match to the anodized red of the original port plug. The painted buttons are closer to maroon than red.

There is a virtually perfect match in Rustoleum Satin Claret Wine 334062. I went through a LOT of different paint options, and even considered mixing custom paint, before finding that product which is basically perfect. Dewy I believe you own one of my Project M hilts. The red buttons on those hilts were anodized red, but then also painted with that color on top.

You can see how stark the difference is, comparing a painted resin button with its more maroon hue, to a nice anodized button with its much brighter red.

That’s a good point. I am not trying to replicate the anodized aluminum part color. The stunt sabers have a darker red color as you pointed out. To my eyes though the Obi TPM stunt sabers are not quite as dark as the Maul. That could be because they had a brighter silver undercoat from painting the rest of the saber, while the Maul is a darker grey.

I somewhat arbitrarily chose these image for my color reference:




I believe this is the saber you referenced Saberz ? It definitely looks like it does have a slightly darker red.



Bottom line, I’m happy if I can get close to any of them, and I’m almost there.

 

[Excelsior]

I'm pretty confident that those conical end rings are steel, and moreover that they are a found item. They feature prominently across a lot of different hilts (Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Kitt Fisto, etc.) and were metal on all the original props on each saber in which they appear. We don't see that kind of consistency on any other Episode I sabers unless it's a found item.

I have never seen one of those bezel pieces that looked like steel to me--not on any of the stunts or hero props. They always look like bright white aluminum. The fact that there is no rust on this part on any of the 25+ year old stunt hilts that Propstore has featured makes it unlikely that any of them were originally made of steel. Consider the Qui-Gon and Obi TPM heroes. The bezels on those clearly match the rest of the aluminum hilt. Furthermore, on the Qui-Gon hero, the steel fender washer is now so rusted that it almost looks like copper in certain photos.

You can see we are dealing with two different types of metal.

I agree that it is probably a found item, however, as the exact same part is used on multiple TPM saber props.

 

[Excelsior]

Some of them definitely look aluminum to me, and the Obi TPM version has that extra lip that the QGJ saber does not. I do think it was a found part, BUT it wouldn’t shock me if they just machined a bunch to replicate the found item given how simple of a part it is.

It's possible, but seems unlikely that they would have made 20-30+ of these with such consistency without a CNC. I'm more inclined to believe that they are all found parts.

I have not seen any evidence of this piece having originally been made of steel. The found part appears to have been some kind of bearing, and it's possible that it had some components made of a different metal. But the part in question--the bezel used on the Obi and Qui, etc. always looks like aluminum.

Here is another TPM hero prop. The part appears to have been some type of bearing assembly. Note the color difference of the two metals. One is white (aluminum) and the other is gray (steel? titanium?):

Regarding the extra lip on the Obi TPM hero, perhaps there were different variations of this part--one with a lip, and one without. Maybe the Qui-Gon didn't have a lip. Maybe it did, but it was ground down flush, whereas they left the lip on the Obi hero. They obviously hit the emitter surface on a lot of these props with a belt sander to grind down the nub of the threaded rod.

 

[Dewy]

I have never seen one of those bezel pieces that looked like steel to me--not on any of the stunts or hero props. They always look like bright white aluminum. The fact that there is no rust on this part on any of the 25+ year old stunt hilts that Propstore has featured makes it unlikely that any of them were originally made of steel.

Just playing devils advocate for a minute :

If these are really Aerospace parts, they could be any number of exotic stainless steel, cobalt, titanium, nickel, etc. alloys that wouldn’t rust. I have personally seen Ti 6-4, Inconel, and Haynes parts that could easily pass as aluminum in a picture.

All that being said, the simplest and most probable solution is Aluminum.

 

[Excelsior]

Just playing devils advocate for a minute :

If these are really Aerospace parts, they could be any number of exotic stainless steel, cobalt, titanium, nickel, etc. alloys that wouldn’t rust. I have personally seen Ti 6-4, Inconel, and Haynes parts that could easily pass as aluminum in a picture.

All that being said, the simplest and most probable solution is Aluminum.

Well you are the aerospace engineer! Judging by the picture above, it looks like there are multiple materials involved. Perhaps the aluminum part has some other component pressed inside of it that mates with the titanium or whatever darker colored material the upper cap piece and bearings are. The aluminum piece would then just be some kind of support/housing, and not a wear piece. Aluminum for cost and weight savings.

 

[Dewy]

Okay, I had a theory that MAYBE there was some issue with the fact that the new resin was bouncing around in the trunk of my car yesterday. Either it had gotten frothy from being shaken up, or it was too warm and was experiencing thermal shock when it hit the room temperature silicone mold.

So now that the stuff has been sitting in my air conditioned home for ~24 hours, I figured I would do another test run.

Here are the down-to-the-gram measured out A and B components. You can see there are a few minor bubbles from pouring, but nothing to be concerned about.



Here is the combined mixture after stirring. A few bubbles, but nothing crazy.



The resulting part still looks like crap.



This is using Specialty Resin brand Platinum Silicone with Smooth-On brand resin, but that really shouldn’t matter. Regardless I have to conclude that either my molds are contaminated or incompatible with this resin, or the 40-50% humidity is causing moisture intrusion. For reference here is the humidity (measured about 30 ft from where I’m working) in my house over the last 24 hours:

 

[13doctorwho]

Maybe residue from the previous resin is not compatible with the smooth on. I use smooth on for a lot of stuff and have never seen this before. Have you tried cleaning the mold?

 

[Saberz]

To my eyes though the Obi TPM stunt sabers are not quite as dark as the Maul. That could be because they had a brighter silver undercoat from painting the rest of the saber, while the Maul is a darker grey.

Images can be deceiving. When I've compared multiple original props together in person right in front of me, the red buttons all seem to match. Obi, Qui, Maul, and others. At maximum, I've seen maybe 20 prequel sabers together at the same moment, and they are all generally the same.

Again, images can be deceiving. Here's a shot of three original props together at the same time and place:

Which of these has a more "candy apple" red button, and which a more muted red? The Qui-Gon certainly appears very bright red. Maybe even that Maul. In truth, NONE OF THEM have bright red buttons, it's just how the image came out after development in Lightroom. ALL THREE have the exact same shade of muted wine red on the button when viewed in person.

Here are some other angles:

You can see the Qui-GOn has a slightly different shade than the Maul and Obi, but is still muted and not "bright red" in appearance. This could be an inconsistent batch of spray, or it may have aged differently than the others, or it may have been a different color of paint originally. But in any case it's still a pretty far distance from the original "shiny red" of the anodized port plug. And I've never seen a prop in person that did appear that way.

Again, in my experience the Rustoleum Claret Wine Satin 334062 is the ideal choice. Your mileage may vary ;-)

 

[Dewy]

Maybe residue from the previous resin is not compatible with the smooth on. I use smooth on for a lot of stuff and have never seen this before. Have you tried cleaning the mold?

The mold of just the pommel was made using Specialty Resin Platinum Silicone, but has only ever had Smooth-On resin poured into it.

Out of curiosity have you had any experience with the Smooth-Cast 321? I’ve been reading that 320, 321, and 322 in particular may be very sensitive to moisture.

 

[Dewy]

Images can be deceiving. When I've compared multiple original props together in person right in front of me, the red buttons all seem to match. Obi, Qui, Maul, and others. At maximum, I've seen maybe 20 prequel sabers together at the same moment, and they are all generally the same.

Again, images can be deceiving. Here's a shot of three original props together at the same time and place:
View attachment 1728517

Which of these has a more "candy apple" red button, and which a more muted red? The Qui-Gon certainly appears very bright red. Maybe even that Maul. In truth, NONE OF THEM have bright red buttons, it's just how the image came out after development in Lightroom. ALL THREE have the exact same shade of muted wine red on the button when viewed in person.

Here are some other angles:

View attachment 1728518

View attachment 1728519

You can see the Qui-GOn has a slightly different shade than the Maul and Obi, but is still muted and not "bright red" in appearance. This could be an inconsistent batch of spray, or it may have aged differently than the others, or it may have been a different color of paint originally. But in any case it's still a pretty far distance from the original "shiny red" of the anodized port plug. And I've never seen a prop in person that did appear that way.

Again, in my experience the Rustoleum Claret Wine Satin 334062 is the ideal choice. Your mileage may vary ;-)

I definitely think there were at least three reds used for the Obi/QGJ red buttons. I agree the majority are a dark red/maroon like you said. However there are some that are dark red that have visible metallic effect to them, some that do not, and some glossy bright red buttons with no metallic effect: