Having Deckard, Han, and Indy make comebacks in the recent past, all having lost their loves makes me think this is something Harrison wanted. Like his notes for the script? Maybe he felt that makes it easier for him to emote, or find an anchor for the character. Maybe, maybe not? I just try to give the benefit of the doubt, rather than it be "lazy writing"
Indiana Jones 5 officially announced
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Having Deckard, Han, and Indy make comebacks in the recent past, all having lost their loves makes me think this is something Harrison wanted. Like his notes for the script? Maybe he felt that makes it easier for him to emote, or find an anchor for the character. Maybe, maybe not? I just try to give the benefit of the doubt, rather than it be "lazy writing"
NakedMoleRat
Legendary Member
Didn’t he recently divorce Ally McBeal around that time as well?
Solo4114
Master Member
They're still married, I thought?
I doubt that Harrison specifically wanted to revisit his old characters and have them be divorced/alone.
Two of those 3 roles got revisited in the last decade just because George Lucas sold Lucasfilm. And Harrison had already revisited Indy once in 2008.
Harrison seems to like a meaty acting role more than he cares about the franchise in a bigger way. He seems guilty of that. But that's just an actor wanting to act.
Two of those 3 roles got revisited in the last decade just because George Lucas sold Lucasfilm. And Harrison had already revisited Indy once in 2008.
Harrison seems to like a meaty acting role more than he cares about the franchise in a bigger way. He seems guilty of that. But that's just an actor wanting to act.
Lightning
Master Member
Agreed, it works best when the audience didn't actually get to see the hero in his heyday. This was done a lot in westerns. End of the west, one last adventure, etc. Rooster Cogburn being the example that comes to mind. Applying the trope to preexisting heroes is a relatively new phenomenon. Are there any literary examples? What's the earliest example in filmed media?
It goes back to my original feeling about modern Indy shows. They should have just done some well-written Tomb Raider flicks or something and cast Harrison as an unofficial elder version of Indy.
He would work fine as a supporting character. Give him a dose of Henry Jones Sr. at the beginning, the well-dressed academic. The other characters assume he isn't too suited for swashbuckling. But throughout the movie he proves to be more rugged & resourceful than they expected and he saves their butts a few times.
That would have been so much easier. Harrison's age wouldn't be locking the story into a certain decade all the time. And the audience's expectations for his character would be lower because the show is not wearing the Indiana Jones name.
He would work fine as a supporting character. Give him a dose of Henry Jones Sr. at the beginning, the well-dressed academic. The other characters assume he isn't too suited for swashbuckling. But throughout the movie he proves to be more rugged & resourceful than they expected and he saves their butts a few times.
That would have been so much easier. Harrison's age wouldn't be locking the story into a certain decade all the time. And the audience's expectations for his character would be lower because the show is not wearing the Indiana Jones name.
The Goon
Sr Member
Minor sidebar - They're still married.
Liberance
Well-Known Member
Man, this thread is still going a year later!
I don't know why this can't just be Indiana Jones. It's why the "you're a teacher?" line works in Crystal Skull.
For the traditional template, Old Henry (Potsy Ponciroli, 2021), kinda Sisu (Jalmari Helander, 2022), and you could argue Pig (Michael Sarnoski, 2021) maybe, although that's a play on the formula by subverting expectations—and perhaps because of it, it's the best of them all.
The one time it's worked recently with a pre-established character was Blade Runner 2049, but that's because tonally and plot-wise it made sense to write a downer Deckard who lost Rachel. That was the one way to move the story forward in that movie because the original was already a meditative work revolving around the fleetingness of life and their relationship. With Indiana Jones, it makes little sense, because it clashes with the upbeat energy of the previous films and disregards the story points of the previous sequel to the point of open disdain.
I don't know why this can't just be Indiana Jones. It's why the "you're a teacher?" line works in Crystal Skull.
For the traditional template, Old Henry (Potsy Ponciroli, 2021), kinda Sisu (Jalmari Helander, 2022), and you could argue Pig (Michael Sarnoski, 2021) maybe, although that's a play on the formula by subverting expectations—and perhaps because of it, it's the best of them all.
The one time it's worked recently with a pre-established character was Blade Runner 2049, but that's because tonally and plot-wise it made sense to write a downer Deckard who lost Rachel. That was the one way to move the story forward in that movie because the original was already a meditative work revolving around the fleetingness of life and their relationship. With Indiana Jones, it makes little sense, because it clashes with the upbeat energy of the previous films and disregards the story points of the previous sequel to the point of open disdain.
Creed did a good job of shifting to a new franchise while still being able to milk the old. You had Apollo’s son, you had Rocky, but just that one single change of naming it Creed instead of Rocky whatever, made it enough of its own thing that no one minded the main character shift. Rocky became a supporting character is his own franchise and it felt perfectly natural.
Comic book films also do this. Having Iron Man show up in a Spiderman movie to give him a boost is great, but having Iron Man 4 be mostly about Peter Parker would suck. (Although DisneyMarvel gets this one wrong as often as they get it right).
Finally watched it a second time. Liked it better this time. Yeah, it has problems.
I think there was way too much death of innocents in this one. Way more than any of the other films. Wu Han is the only friend-of-Indy character I can think of in the original trilogy who got killed because he helped the hero. Jock didn't get killed flying Indy out of South America. The crew of Bantu Wind made it through okay. None of the villagers in India bought it. Broadening it to innocent bystanders, the Venice librarian wasn't shot through the head like the vendor in Sicily or Indy's colleagues. Etc.
In this film, Indy's like James Bond, he leaves a trail of dead friends behind during his adventure.
The bad guys are bad, we get it. Tone it down.
Liked the WWII prologue. If it was okay with Ford, I wouldn't mind more de-aged Indy adventures set in the 30s or 40s.
I think there was way too much death of innocents in this one. Way more than any of the other films. Wu Han is the only friend-of-Indy character I can think of in the original trilogy who got killed because he helped the hero. Jock didn't get killed flying Indy out of South America. The crew of Bantu Wind made it through okay. None of the villagers in India bought it. Broadening it to innocent bystanders, the Venice librarian wasn't shot through the head like the vendor in Sicily or Indy's colleagues. Etc.
In this film, Indy's like James Bond, he leaves a trail of dead friends behind during his adventure.
The bad guys are bad, we get it. Tone it down.
Liked the WWII prologue. If it was okay with Ford, I wouldn't mind more de-aged Indy adventures set in the 30s or 40s.
IMO the de-aged WW2 prologue is the kind of thing that works because it's limited. If you tried to hold that up for a whole movie then the creative limits and poor cost/benefit ratio would run against it.
IMO this is probably where we will end up in the long run. CGI faces work best in small doses and when the shot doesn't have important dramatic acting. That's how it works with most effects of any kind.
IMO this is probably where we will end up in the long run. CGI faces work best in small doses and when the shot doesn't have important dramatic acting. That's how it works with most effects of any kind.
The 80 year old voice is the issue that throws the CGI de-aged Indy, for me…43 year old Harrison Ford and 80 year old Harrison Ford sound distinctly different.
It's odd that they didn't put his voice through a remodulator.
Lightning
Master Member
Most of it isn't even that bad. But the first line after they remove the bag? Horrible. Colors the entire rest of the sequence.
cboath
Master Member
Sounds like a professional wrestler....'The Remodulator!"
Lightning
Master Member
From an in universe perspective it makes sense that particular shirt would be out of production. So I assume the movie production crew used that logic to justify removing the stripes, which makes sewing the shirts easier.
Yes but that logic could be applied to practically everything he wears. And they were already making the old version for the WWII scenes.
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