ANH Darth Vader Helmet

[vadermania]

dunno if that has been discussed before here, but what are the best reference points for measurements? Cheek corners, corners of mouth triangle, nose width, tusk tube diameter etc.?

For example I find it hard to measure the width of dome center stripe on some helmets, because it lacks "corners" on some helmets due to the many generations of the casts.

Tom

 

[voice in the crowd]

Just to make things a bit clearer when discussing this face plate I spoke to the maker and he would like it to be called the 'VP Vader' for his own reasons I suppose

Cheers Chris.

 

[Darth Kahnt]

Glad this piece finally has a name...

 

[SithLord]

I'm not sure what that name is based on but it will likely change again at some point .

Here's a new comparison against the DJ....there seem to be slight differences in the cheek top surface slopes (DJ higher on Vader's left, lower on Vader's right), Vader's left eye lower edge height (higher on the DJ), and in the necks (narrower on Vader's right on the DJ).

A couple more...I guess a point of reference so there's no confusion is that this is not a VP dome, it's a GH dome. The dome that was originally mated with this faceplate is a ROTJ dome....that combination with this faceplate could be called a VP helmet but just so people don't call it a VP ANH, unless the owner just calls it the VP mask? The owner didn't seem to know it was ANH until I indicated it was one. The VP faceplate and GH dome would be a unique combination.

 

[SithLord]

Compared against the lastest incarnation of a JB V2 (the so-called special edition version... :rolleyes ). Both domes are GH (JB did a nice sharpening up job), and although I've scaled them, the JB V2 dome will be a bit smaller than this particular GH dome. At any rate, the JB V2 shows the same faceplate:dome scaling problem as any 20th Century faceplate derivative...

 

[ROBOSTEVE 0671]

Great shots Thomas :thumbsup

 

[Fatherless One]

JB's stuff is looking more and more like SPFX's helmets, not a bad thing I suppose

 

[HAL9000]

Ummm... sorry, I must have missed this completely.
what are we calling this?

:thumbsup

 

[RKW]

I'm sorry but this comparison shows us nothing with relation to any scaling problems.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SithLord @ Jan 11 2007, 06:32 AM) [snapback]1395040[/snapback]</div>

Compared against the lastest incarnation of a JB V2 (the so-called special edition version... :rolleyes ). Both domes are GH (JB did a nice sharpening up job), and although I've scaled them, the JB V2 dome will be a bit smaller than this particular GH dome. At any rate, the JB V2 shows the same faceplate:dome scaling problem as any 20th Century faceplate derivative...

[/b]

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RKW @ Jan 11 2007, 08:48 AM) [snapback]1395147[/snapback]</div>

I'm sorry but this comparison shows us nothing with relation to any scaling problems.
[/b]

Well it's not just based on the comparison, but on measurements, and not only of the JB V2 but of several helmets derived from 20th Century faceplates. I've done the research and am presenting it here.

 

[RKW]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SithLord @ Jan 11 2007, 01:56 PM) [snapback]1395148[/snapback]</div>

Well it's not just based on the comparison, but on measurements, and not only of the JB V2 but of several helmets derived from 20th Century faceplates. I've done the research and am presenting it here.
[/b]

You may well have done research SL but you haven't presented anything here other than your opinion. We haven't seen any hard data just figures like 1cm being bandied about despite the last photo comparison showing otherwise.

 

[lambotour]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SithLord @ Jan 11 2007, 12:26 AM) [snapback]1395022[/snapback]</div>

[/b]

The more I look at it, the DJ faceplate looks too small compared to the screen used ANH faceplate, which IMO is rather large. I'm not here to dispute it's provenance because I consider it tops as far as faceplates go, but it looks more like the ESB promo shot faceplate than the screen used ANH one. I realize lense distortion, lighting etc will change the look of the faceplate, but in every screenshot the ANH faceplate is huge. Hell the dome looks small sometimes when compared to that faceplate, again just my observations. The DJ dome, however, looks to be a dead ringer to the original. SL are the measurements on your mouth area similar to DJ's? Your mouth area looks to be wider, which is more in line with the original.

 

[Darth Kahnt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RKW @ Jan 11 2007, 10:30 AM) [snapback]1395150[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SithLord @ Jan 11 2007, 01:56 PM) [snapback]1395148[/snapback]

Well it's not just based on the comparison, but on measurements, and not only of the JB V2 but of several helmets derived from 20th Century faceplates. I've done the research and am presenting it here.
[/b]

You may well have done research SL but you haven't presented anything here other than your opinion. We haven't seen any hard data just figures like 1cm being bandied about despite the last photo comparison showing otherwise.
[/b][/quote]

Thomas, I'd be interested in seeing the measurements so this thread does not get derailed yet again. Hopefully you'll have a chance to post then soon.

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lambotour @ Jan 11 2007, 09:56 AM) [snapback]1395176[/snapback]</div>

The more I look at it, the DJ faceplate looks too small compared to the screen used ANH faceplate, which IMO is rather large. I'm not here to dispute it's provenance because I consider it tops as far as faceplates go, but it looks more like the ESB promo shot faceplate than the screen used ANH one. I realize lense distortion, lighting etc will change the look of the faceplate, but in every screenshot the ANH faceplate is huge. Hell the dome looks small sometimes when compared to that faceplate, again just my observations. The DJ dome, however, looks to be a dead ringer to the original. SL are the measurements on your mouth area similar to DJ's? Your mouth area looks to be wider, which is more in line with the original.
[/b]

Yes, the screen ANH faceplate is plenty big in relation to the dome...much more so than we are used to seeing here. I haven't compared mouth area measurements with DJ's but I think the proportions on his are basically correct...the mouth might appear smaller if the neck is longer? Keep in mind in the comparison that the DJ faceplate is actually a bit larger in real life than this one from the UK. RKW, you might think it's only my opinion, but it's based on measurements, which you justifiably of course keep asking for. As I've said before, if I share the measurements, then helmet makers like JB and your friend will simply try to make their faceplates larger, just as I've seen certain makers try to expand the neck of their faceplates so that they don't fall through the opening of the armor :rolleyes . If I borrowed both a recent example of the ebay and JB V2 faceplates in their most recent incarnation, I could show you a comparison that will not only end the argument about what is authentic and what is not, but will also bring about a dramatic shift in the way people look at the original ANH helmet. But it would have to be an example of what the helmet makers consider their final "definitive" and authentic faceplate...no more modifications...no more tweaking the details...no more fancy paintwork...just the example that they claim comes directly from the source they espouse (which is usually some kind of story to do with Don Post studios...how original). I've already done the comparisons, but with faceplates the makers will say were at earlier stages of development or didn't include all of the original details...or whatever else excuse they come up with.





<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darth Kahnt @ Jan 11 2007, 10:46 AM) [snapback]1395197[/snapback]</div>

Thomas, I'd be interested in seeing the measurements so this thread does not get derailed yet again. Hopefully you'll have a chance to post then soon.
[/b]

And even if I did post measurements, people like RKW would find some other excuse to question them...so why should I share my research here?

 

[Darth Kahnt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SithLord @ Jan 11 2007, 12:22 PM) [snapback]1395200[/snapback]</div>

And even if I did post measurements, people like RKW would find some other excuse to question them...so why should I share my research here?
[/b]

That's true Thomas. This kind of silliness never seems to end in these Vader threads.

 

[RKW]

I'm not oblivious to the different widths of facemasks produced by the same vendor(s). But all it really proves is just what a dramatic effect you can make to the dimensions using the same mould.

Knowing that such differences can be produced it makes me question how you can validate measurements and choose which parts of the faceplate to measure.

 

[SithLord]

Although I suppose if other people on the forum measured their own faceplates we could together show the same thing...might be an interesting exercise. Then it wouldn't just come from me...

 

[RKW]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SithLord @ Jan 11 2007, 04:09 PM) [snapback]1395205[/snapback]</div>

Although I suppose if other people on the forum measured their own faceplates we could together show the same thing...might be an interesting exercise. Then it wouldn't just come from me...
[/b]

For that to work people would have to be shown exactly where to measure first so not to introduce more errors.

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RKW @ Jan 11 2007, 11:08 AM) [snapback]1395204[/snapback]</div>

Knowing that such differences can be produced it makes me question how you can validate measurements and choose which parts of the faceplate to measure.
[/b]

Of course it does...here is what you need to do:

How to validate original size:

Step 1. Know how big the original helmet was.

Step 2. Get measurements from other original helmets.

Step 3. Cross reference with size of original tabs.

Step 4. Get someone who made the original helmets to confirm the authenticity of the sources.

So it's very simple to validate

 

[Darth Kahnt]

You can count me in. I have a GH ANH and a JB V2.