ANH Darth Vader Helmet
- Thread starter SithLord
- Start date
Darth Kahnt
Sr Member
I agree with darthvaderv in that it is all about the look. The GH helmet just "looks" the part to me and many others here. This new faceplate also has the same look, although I'd be curious to see a finished piece.
Ghost Host
Sr Member
Thanks DK.
vaderdarth
Master Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RKW @ Jan 4 2007, 08:42 AM) [snapback]1390296[/snapback]</div>
they don't fill out the dome the same. Look at the sides of the face moreso than the area above the eyes. There is a good bit of difference.
Dave
they don't fill out the dome the same. Look at the sides of the face moreso than the area above the eyes. There is a good bit of difference.
Dave
RKW
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vaderdarth @ Jan 4 2007, 03:34 PM) [snapback]1390347[/snapback]</div>
they don't fill out the dome the same. Look at the sides of the face moreso than the area above the eyes. There is a good bit of difference.
Dave
[/b][/quote]
I'm looking at the sides and don't follow what you're suggesting. Remember the dome is sat a little higher on the GH based on the relative positions of the widows peak.
they don't fill out the dome the same. Look at the sides of the face moreso than the area above the eyes. There is a good bit of difference.
Dave
[/b][/quote]
I'm looking at the sides and don't follow what you're suggesting. Remember the dome is sat a little higher on the GH based on the relative positions of the widows peak.
Darth Kahnt
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ghost Host @ Jan 4 2007, 11:29 AM) [snapback]1390328[/snapback]</div>
Only being realistic GH.
Only being realistic GH.
vaderdarth
Master Member
I don't know how to explain it really. I just see it clearly. I know the dome is sitting higher, but the sides won't change as much as the top if you push the face into the dome a few mm. Hope that helps.
Dave
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RKW @ Jan 4 2007, 10:44 AM) [snapback]1390353[/snapback]</div>
they don't fill out the dome the same. Look at the sides of the face moreso than the area above the eyes. There is a good bit of difference.
Dave
[/b][/quote]
I'm looking at the sides and don't follow what you're suggesting. Remember the dome is sat a little higher on the GH based on the relative positions of the widows peak.
[/b][/quote]
Dave
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RKW @ Jan 4 2007, 10:44 AM) [snapback]1390353[/snapback]</div>
they don't fill out the dome the same. Look at the sides of the face moreso than the area above the eyes. There is a good bit of difference.
Dave
[/b][/quote]
I'm looking at the sides and don't follow what you're suggesting. Remember the dome is sat a little higher on the GH based on the relative positions of the widows peak.
[/b][/quote]
RKW
Sr Member
I've done this pic to help you better explain where you're looking at. All I've done is lightened the original pic and where I have drawn lines on the new casting I have simply copied them over to the GH faceplate so that all the lengths of the lines are equal between helmets.
I still think it's safe to say that based on this photo both faceplates pretty much fill out the dome the same.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vaderdarth @ Jan 4 2007, 05:42 PM) [snapback]1390410[/snapback]</div>
they don't fill out the dome the same. Look at the sides of the face moreso than the area above the eyes. There is a good bit of difference.
Dave
[/b][/quote]
I'm looking at the sides and don't follow what you're suggesting. Remember the dome is sat a little higher on the GH based on the relative positions of the widows peak.
[/b][/quote]
[/b][/quote]
I still think it's safe to say that based on this photo both faceplates pretty much fill out the dome the same.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vaderdarth @ Jan 4 2007, 05:42 PM) [snapback]1390410[/snapback]</div>
they don't fill out the dome the same. Look at the sides of the face moreso than the area above the eyes. There is a good bit of difference.
Dave
[/b][/quote]
I'm looking at the sides and don't follow what you're suggesting. Remember the dome is sat a little higher on the GH based on the relative positions of the widows peak.
[/b][/quote]
[/b][/quote]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NoHumorMan @ Jan 4 2007, 06:46 AM) [snapback]1390266[/snapback]</div>
I have triplet measurements of certain fan-made helmets (ie: measurements of three different 20th Century masks, or JB V2, etc.) and all agree with each other...very close or nearly identical. Also, helmets that come from similar sources show nearly identical sizes or within the same ballpark (ie: JB V2 vs 20th Century, although JB V2 will always be a tad bit smaller). Also, original helmets will only vary between movies, not within movies although I've not been able to sample that many original helmets LOL. And yes the source is important although it really depends on how many generations from that similiar source.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RKW @ Jan 4 2007, 02:01 PM) [snapback]1390488[/snapback]</div>
Nice illustration...ya I was lucky I have so many angle shots of each helmet I was able to match them reasonably well...but yes one does have to consider the size of the face itself in relation to the size of the crown (top of head) and the neck...those do vary among different fan-made helmets, for example...but their proportions will be pretty much equal for something close to an original be it original ANH or ESB (not sure about ROTJ). It also illustrates that given similar conditions you can compare two different helmets in photos and address proportions, which is what I do in overlays all the time. And I hope it also illustrates that yes the GH has it's cleaned up areas but it did come from an ANH helmet at some point and is not a unique sculpture as was suggested by some previously.
I have triplet measurements of certain fan-made helmets (ie: measurements of three different 20th Century masks, or JB V2, etc.) and all agree with each other...very close or nearly identical. Also, helmets that come from similar sources show nearly identical sizes or within the same ballpark (ie: JB V2 vs 20th Century, although JB V2 will always be a tad bit smaller). Also, original helmets will only vary between movies, not within movies although I've not been able to sample that many original helmets LOL. And yes the source is important although it really depends on how many generations from that similiar source.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RKW @ Jan 4 2007, 02:01 PM) [snapback]1390488[/snapback]</div>
Nice illustration...ya I was lucky I have so many angle shots of each helmet I was able to match them reasonably well...but yes one does have to consider the size of the face itself in relation to the size of the crown (top of head) and the neck...those do vary among different fan-made helmets, for example...but their proportions will be pretty much equal for something close to an original be it original ANH or ESB (not sure about ROTJ). It also illustrates that given similar conditions you can compare two different helmets in photos and address proportions, which is what I do in overlays all the time. And I hope it also illustrates that yes the GH has it's cleaned up areas but it did come from an ANH helmet at some point and is not a unique sculpture as was suggested by some previously.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darthvaderv @ Jan 4 2007, 07:28 AM) [snapback]1390273[/snapback]</div>
Knowing how big the original prop is...wouldn't you want your replica to be as close as possible to that? That would imply that generationally it should be closer to the original. The reason I place emphasis on this is that I really don't know most of the time how many generations a given fan helmet will be from the original...so all I have to go on is size....and so far as I have been able to tell...size doesn't lie.
Knowing how big the original prop is...wouldn't you want your replica to be as close as possible to that? That would imply that generationally it should be closer to the original. The reason I place emphasis on this is that I really don't know most of the time how many generations a given fan helmet will be from the original...so all I have to go on is size....and so far as I have been able to tell...size doesn't lie.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RKW @ Jan 4 2007, 05:44 PM) [snapback]1390627[/snapback]</div>
"This will be a day long remembered" :lol
But you know...I've always agreed with you on the differences between the GH and the screen mask like the corners of the eyebrows, etc. You put these two faceplates side by side and it's easy to see how someone tried to improve the GH by trying to fix little imperfections on the original. For example, the Vader's right side of the nosebridge on the screen mask is rough...so that's why the right side of the GH nosebridge was sanded down and the slots are narrower but only on that side, not the left side...the left is identical to the screen. The right (Vader's right) side of the mouth triangle was sanded down because it was on that side that there are irregularities in the surface of the screen mask. Of course these things were not done to masks like the 20th C and its derivatives, but those are generationally from ESB, not ANH. And again I've used the Darth Jones helmet as a benchmark (and now this new mask as well) but there's only one DJ helmet. :cry
"This will be a day long remembered" :lol
But you know...I've always agreed with you on the differences between the GH and the screen mask like the corners of the eyebrows, etc. You put these two faceplates side by side and it's easy to see how someone tried to improve the GH by trying to fix little imperfections on the original. For example, the Vader's right side of the nosebridge on the screen mask is rough...so that's why the right side of the GH nosebridge was sanded down and the slots are narrower but only on that side, not the left side...the left is identical to the screen. The right (Vader's right) side of the mouth triangle was sanded down because it was on that side that there are irregularities in the surface of the screen mask. Of course these things were not done to masks like the 20th C and its derivatives, but those are generationally from ESB, not ANH. And again I've used the Darth Jones helmet as a benchmark (and now this new mask as well) but there's only one DJ helmet. :cry
Boba Frett
Sr Member
First I have seen of this thread, excellent combo with the GH dome :thumbsup
Sweet looking facemask Thomas :thumbsup
Sweet looking facemask Thomas :thumbsup
vaderdarth
Master Member
RKW, even from the lines you drew, there is a statistical difference in the distance from the facemask to the dome from one to the other. I'm not saying they aren't obviously from a common source, I agree with you and Sithlord on that point, but I am saying they are different enough in size that they can't be from the same generation. 1cm is statistically significant in something this size. Again, somewhere between 3-5% in certain locations.
Peace,
Dave
Peace,
Dave
RKW
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vaderdarth @ Jan 4 2007, 11:15 PM) [snapback]1390642[/snapback]</div>
SAY WHA??? :confused
I must have read this atleast five times and don't understand a word of it. Where in blazes did the figure of 1cm come from?
RKW, even from the lines you drew, there is a statistical difference in the distance from the facemask to the dome from one to the other. I'm not saying they aren't obviously from a common source, I agree with you and Sithlord on that point, but I am saying they are different enough in size that they can't be from the same generation. 1cm is statistically significant in something this size. Again, somewhere between 3-5% in certain locations.
Peace,
Dave
[/b]
SAY WHA??? :confused
I must have read this atleast five times and don't understand a word of it. Where in blazes did the figure of 1cm come from?
Darth Kahnt
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RKW @ Jan 4 2007, 07:56 PM) [snapback]1390658[/snapback]</div>
SAY WHA??? :confused
I must have read this atleast five times and don't understand a word of it. Where in blazes did the figure of 1cm come from?
[/b][/quote]
I think he was using 1cm as an example of how it would make a huge difference if you were comparing masks. I don't think he was implying 1cm to any specific helmet or photo.
RKW, even from the lines you drew, there is a statistical difference in the distance from the facemask to the dome from one to the other. I'm not saying they aren't obviously from a common source, I agree with you and Sithlord on that point, but I am saying they are different enough in size that they can't be from the same generation. 1cm is statistically significant in something this size. Again, somewhere between 3-5% in certain locations.
Peace,
Dave
[/b]
SAY WHA??? :confused
I must have read this atleast five times and don't understand a word of it. Where in blazes did the figure of 1cm come from?
[/b][/quote]
I think he was using 1cm as an example of how it would make a huge difference if you were comparing masks. I don't think he was implying 1cm to any specific helmet or photo.
vaderdarth
Master Member
Yes exactly, 1cm isn't a huge difference, but it's not insignificant either, particularly when discussing the lineage. It's the whole lineage thing that I am referring to in all my posts. The fact that there is at least one measurement between those two facemasks which does in fact differ by 1cm or so.........is just an example. In this thread I'm discussing the photo at hand.......but some of us have held these mask first hand. No need to get all bent out of shape over some scientific observations.
RKW, I've said it before and I'll say it again, To me, you strike me as one of the most combative individuals in these vader threads. It's almost as if you've got a chip on your shoulders. I have been quite respectful to you, as has everyone you have argued with in this topic. It's almost as if another individual were typing your replies for you.........hence why people keep confusing you with Phil. How about toning your posts down a bit. There is absolutely no reason why a vader thread can't remain civil and fun. In the past threads get dragged into the toilet from misunderstandings........if that is what this is............so put a little effort into it and let's stay cool. My intent is to interact on my favorite topic...Vader....and have fun here........it's not to keep tangling with you every time I type a sentence...........are we clear???? And if you don't understand something I've typed, maybe it's not always my fault. Why don't we just avoid one another altogether......it seems to work well for me and certain individuals.
Peace,
Dave
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darth Kahnt @ Jan 4 2007, 06:31 PM) [snapback]1390666[/snapback]</div>
SAY WHA??? :confused
I must have read this atleast five times and don't understand a word of it. Where in blazes did the figure of 1cm come from?
[/b][/quote]
I think he was using 1cm as an example of how it would make a huge difference if you were comparing masks. I don't think he was implying 1cm to any specific helmet or photo.
[/b][/quote]
RKW, I've said it before and I'll say it again, To me, you strike me as one of the most combative individuals in these vader threads. It's almost as if you've got a chip on your shoulders. I have been quite respectful to you, as has everyone you have argued with in this topic. It's almost as if another individual were typing your replies for you.........hence why people keep confusing you with Phil. How about toning your posts down a bit. There is absolutely no reason why a vader thread can't remain civil and fun. In the past threads get dragged into the toilet from misunderstandings........if that is what this is............so put a little effort into it and let's stay cool. My intent is to interact on my favorite topic...Vader....and have fun here........it's not to keep tangling with you every time I type a sentence...........are we clear???? And if you don't understand something I've typed, maybe it's not always my fault. Why don't we just avoid one another altogether......it seems to work well for me and certain individuals.
Peace,
Dave
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darth Kahnt @ Jan 4 2007, 06:31 PM) [snapback]1390666[/snapback]</div>
RKW, even from the lines you drew, there is a statistical difference in the distance from the facemask to the dome from one to the other. I'm not saying they aren't obviously from a common source, I agree with you and Sithlord on that point, but I am saying they are different enough in size that they can't be from the same generation. 1cm is statistically significant in something this size. Again, somewhere between 3-5% in certain locations.
Peace,
Dave
[/b]
SAY WHA??? :confused
I must have read this atleast five times and don't understand a word of it. Where in blazes did the figure of 1cm come from?
[/b][/quote]
I think he was using 1cm as an example of how it would make a huge difference if you were comparing masks. I don't think he was implying 1cm to any specific helmet or photo.
[/b][/quote]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RKW @ Jan 4 2007, 06:26 PM) [snapback]1390658[/snapback]</div>
SAY WHA??? :confused
I must have read this atleast five times and don't understand a word of it. Where in blazes did the figure of 1cm come from?
[/b][/quote]
I think he's referring to the crown size (crown of the head of the faceplate) and how the dome fits on the top of the faceplate...that can certainly differ by that amount between helmets...the distance from the side of the crown (not the temple area or the eye area) to the inside of the dome if it's sitting on the faceplate without a spacer...there's very little spacer used in these photos I'm showing...
SAY WHA??? :confused
I must have read this atleast five times and don't understand a word of it. Where in blazes did the figure of 1cm come from?
[/b][/quote]
I think he's referring to the crown size (crown of the head of the faceplate) and how the dome fits on the top of the faceplate...that can certainly differ by that amount between helmets...the distance from the side of the crown (not the temple area or the eye area) to the inside of the dome if it's sitting on the faceplate without a spacer...there's very little spacer used in these photos I'm showing...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SithLord @ Jan 4 2007, 10:26 PM) [snapback]1390607[/snapback]</div>
Knowing how big the original prop is...wouldn't you want your replica to be as close as possible to that? That would imply that generationally it should be closer to the original. The reason I place emphasis on this is that I really don't know most of the time how many generations a given fan helmet will be from the original...so all I have to go on is size....and so far as I have been able to tell...size doesn't lie.
[/b][/quote]
In response to your first sentance. Yes I agree with you. My overall observation is that the majority of people do not have access to the correct measurements apart from a select few, all in all I would take a fractionally smaller helmet (that many won't notice anyway) which is accurate in appearance over a less visually accurate version that maintains the size close to the original. TBH the generational differences is important from a lineage POV but individually I state my preference with the overall look.
Knowing how big the original prop is...wouldn't you want your replica to be as close as possible to that? That would imply that generationally it should be closer to the original. The reason I place emphasis on this is that I really don't know most of the time how many generations a given fan helmet will be from the original...so all I have to go on is size....and so far as I have been able to tell...size doesn't lie.
[/b][/quote]
In response to your first sentance. Yes I agree with you. My overall observation is that the majority of people do not have access to the correct measurements apart from a select few
, all in all I would take a fractionally smaller helmet (that many won't notice anyway) which is accurate in appearance over a less visually accurate version that maintains the size close to the original. TBH the generational differences is important from a lineage POV but individually I state my preference with the overall look.Similar threads
