Gimpdiggity
Master Member
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Westworld (HBO)
- Thread starter DaddyfromNaboo
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Gimpdiggity
Master Member
I totally missed your post.
I suppose there is a chance they only have one kind of bowie knife in the park, but I don't think this is that kind of show.
Agreed. While I feel there's a chance it could be coincidence, or one of a very few knives available to guests, I feel like there was more to it.
Especially the way the knife was kind of focused on. Ford really looked at it when he took it out of the table, and the way they showed it when it was stuck in the table seemed like they wanted you to notice it.
Then it was like they very deliberately showed the knife in the trailer for upcoming episodes.
Father
Sr Member
Great episode. I feel like the MiB storyline is going to either be disappointing or it'll be what he seems to be looking for: a worthy adversary, and if/when the adversary kills the MiB maybe that will be some sort of trigger that Arnold had programmed into all of the hosts that removes all of the park's safety protocols.
I wonder if the adversary MiB is referring to isn't actually Wyatt, but Delores. Maybe she'll be the Yule Brenner of this version. Gender swapping a character like that wouldn't be anything new (BSG Starbuck comes to mind).
It was weird to see Lawrence so soon after he was drained by MiB. If we're not seeing the show in chronological order I'm wondering if there may be multiple versions of some characters in order to keep the repetitive things intact when a guest takes a host far off their loop, like Delores and Lawrence. I doubt it though.... they seem to go to great lengths to make each host unique. Maybe it'll be made clear later how the whole Groundhog Day process works. The first couple episodes we kept seeing the same pars played out from different POVs, but there hasn't been a reset like that lately.
I'm kind of hoping Logan and William [especially] end up being cannon fodder for something much bigger.
Logan mentions something that seems to imply the company he works for is going to buy out Delos. Possibly supported by Elsie's discovery of the laser-based satellite uplink. Maybe Ford is aware of this and those two will never leave the park. That discovery also implies there might be a mole in the support staff for something that big to be implanted in a host without anyone noticing.
I find William irritating... most the actor playing him. Logan is just a degenerate a-hole whose character seems like he's definitely being played out to be killed.
That was a weird moment.... my mind knew the song was familiar but I couldn't place it. I had to look it up.
The whole orgie scene was pretty wild.
They also seem to be showing a lot more genitalia in this one.
I wonder if the adversary MiB is referring to isn't actually Wyatt, but Delores. Maybe she'll be the Yule Brenner of this version. Gender swapping a character like that wouldn't be anything new (BSG Starbuck comes to mind).
It was weird to see Lawrence so soon after he was drained by MiB. If we're not seeing the show in chronological order I'm wondering if there may be multiple versions of some characters in order to keep the repetitive things intact when a guest takes a host far off their loop, like Delores and Lawrence. I doubt it though.... they seem to go to great lengths to make each host unique. Maybe it'll be made clear later how the whole Groundhog Day process works. The first couple episodes we kept seeing the same pars played out from different POVs, but there hasn't been a reset like that lately.
I'm kind of hoping Logan and William [especially] end up being cannon fodder for something much bigger.
Logan mentions something that seems to imply the company he works for is going to buy out Delos. Possibly supported by Elsie's discovery of the laser-based satellite uplink. Maybe Ford is aware of this and those two will never leave the park. That discovery also implies there might be a mole in the support staff for something that big to be implanted in a host without anyone noticing.
I find William irritating... most the actor playing him. Logan is just a degenerate a-hole whose character seems like he's definitely being played out to be killed.
That was a weird moment.... my mind knew the song was familiar but I couldn't place it. I had to look it up.
The whole orgie scene was pretty wild.
They also seem to be showing a lot more genitalia in this one.
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Gimpdiggity
Master Member
I feel that Logan works FOR Delos. When we see Logan and William first get to Westworld, there is no "A Delos Destination" under the Westworld logo.
The logo on the website you can visit has "A Delos Destination" on it, and it's the same more modern looking logo that we see in other shots and behind the scenes.
This goes well with the throry that we are seeing two timelines being told at the same time...the "past" with William and Logan before Delia buys in, and the present with MiB after Delos has bought in.
This is my current theory, after what MiB said to Ford about the park almost dying if it wasn't for him (MiB):
We've heard people behind the scenes say that there hasn't been a malfunction in 30 years. MiB said that "the man who created" Westworld died 35 years ago. We have heard Logan say that "Ford had a partner who killed himself, but we haven't found anything, not even a picture of the guy." we also know that Logan is William's boss, but that William is also fairly high up in the company. We also know that MiB is someone in the real world that other people would recognize, and that he has some sort of foundation...basically, it seems he's probably pretty rich.
So...
Im going with we are seeing two timelines...William and Logan 5 years after Arnold's "death" and the MiB's 35 years after said death.
I feel that something is going going to happen where a host is going to kill Logan...this will end up being the "malfunction," or at least part of it, that the behind the scenes folks refer to from 30 years ago.
His death will ultimately lead to William's taking over of the Delos company. He will then end up buying into Westworld in order to save the park after the "malfunction."
Thats just my thoughts as of right now, and of course they'd be completely thrown out if next week we see MiB and Logan meet each other.
Im back to being fully on board with the two timelines...my wife, however, thinks that is way too obvious.
***EDIT***
I just googled Logan Delos, just to see if I could find anything. This article was first, and it does a goid job summing up the theory that I've come up with for myself, but it's much more fleshed out with examples...
https://www.inverse.com/amp/article/23017-logan-william-westworld-d
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I don't know if they are trying to tell us that she is killing herself over and over really quickly. Like they just finished up on her right before the break and when they come back, damn she is already in need of repairs again? Or something else with the fishy timelines?
Also, I like the knife observation. William must be the MIB from 30 years ago yeah?
It seems Dolores is retracing her steps from 30 years ago when she was in the park with William. Now she appears to be on the journey by herself.
A few other thoughts/ideas:
If William is the MIB from 30 years ago when this "incident" happens. Then why do they look nothing alike? Unless consciousness can be transferred from one body to another? Or from human to host? Is this what is happening at the center of the maze? If that is the case then Bernard could somehow be Arnold. If William's story line takes place 30 years ago, but Arnold died 34 years ago, then we have Dolores heading to the white church to meet up with Arnold in one form or another only 4 years after his death.
The only thing bothering me about the multiple timelines theory is when they send a tech out to bring Dolores back to her standard loop, but William stops that from happening by saying "she is with me". This doesn't seem to jive with the current timeline sending out the tech to fetch her and a possible 30yr old timeline where William is traveling with her. Unless it was just shown that way to throw us off with an explanation on how this is possible to be revealed at a later time.
Also, I like the knife observation. William must be the MIB from 30 years ago yeah?
It seems Dolores is retracing her steps from 30 years ago when she was in the park with William. Now she appears to be on the journey by herself.
A few other thoughts/ideas:
If William is the MIB from 30 years ago when this "incident" happens. Then why do they look nothing alike? Unless consciousness can be transferred from one body to another? Or from human to host? Is this what is happening at the center of the maze? If that is the case then Bernard could somehow be Arnold. If William's story line takes place 30 years ago, but Arnold died 34 years ago, then we have Dolores heading to the white church to meet up with Arnold in one form or another only 4 years after his death.
The only thing bothering me about the multiple timelines theory is when they send a tech out to bring Dolores back to her standard loop, but William stops that from happening by saying "she is with me". This doesn't seem to jive with the current timeline sending out the tech to fetch her and a possible 30yr old timeline where William is traveling with her. Unless it was just shown that way to throw us off with an explanation on how this is possible to be revealed at a later time.
Gimpdiggity
Master Member
I like your idea that she's killing herself over and over again...like maybe even within a few hours of being put back in service.
Makes me wonder if shes been specifically waiting for a time when Felix would be alone before she decided to talk to him.
As for the tech going out to fetch her, it could just be clever editing. She was off loop in the William timeline so the techs send someone to get her (and we are only seeing the guy try to fetch her, but didn't see the techs send him) AND she's off loop in the MiB timeline so the techs also send someone to get her (and we are seeing the techs send someone, but not actually seeing the guy fetch her).
Basically A leads to B in both timelines, and we see A in one, but B in the other...and the way it's edited tricks us into thinking we are seeing them both in one timeline.
Makes me wonder if shes been specifically waiting for a time when Felix would be alone before she decided to talk to him.
As for the tech going out to fetch her, it could just be clever editing. She was off loop in the William timeline so the techs send someone to get her (and we are only seeing the guy try to fetch her, but didn't see the techs send him) AND she's off loop in the MiB timeline so the techs also send someone to get her (and we are seeing the techs send someone, but not actually seeing the guy fetch her).
Basically A leads to B in both timelines, and we see A in one, but B in the other...and the way it's edited tricks us into thinking we are seeing them both in one timeline.
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SpaceCrawler
Well-Known Member
Tonight we saw Yul Brynner's "Gunslinger" character in the background when Bernard goes "downstairs" to access the old computer system. He was just standing there, thumbs in pockets like Yul, in same outfit, in the background as Bernard walks to the computer. There were also some references to the original soundtrack shortly before (percussive echoes that were identical to sounds from the original Westworld soundtrack when the Gunslinger is pursuing Richard Benjamin).
Sean
Sean
Gimpdiggity
Master Member
Wife was too tired to watch tonight...
...and so I struggle...so I watch it alone, then watch again with her tomorrow while pretending like I haven't watched yet? Or just wait until tomorrow to watch it?
...and so I struggle...so I watch it alone, then watch again with her tomorrow while pretending like I haven't watched yet? Or just wait until tomorrow to watch it?
Gimpdiggity
Master Member
Re: HBO gives us a "Westworld" remake as a series!
Its an Easter Egg.
Nolan has said the show is inspired by the original, but doesn't share any actual story.
Its an Easter Egg.
Nolan has said the show is inspired by the original, but doesn't share any actual story.
When Bernard logged into the old computer downstairs, it used the old school Westworld logo from the movie again as well. Previously, we saw them in the flashback sequences, like on the lab coats the technicians were wearing alongside young Ford.
When William entered the park in the 2nd episode, the new version of the logo was shown. The dressing room originally had the old logo as shot, and this was changed to the new logo in post production. Here is the image (found on Reddit) showing the old logo before it was changed:
And here's that thumbnail screen:
I figure that if they went to the trouble to change it, it means that William is not in some period in the past.
Another thing that doesn't jive with me about the theories of William possibly being the Man in Black is that we've seen Delores have flashbacks involving the Man in Black, directly before she escaped her family farm (and her loop) to run into William and Logan's camp.
My eyes lit up at noticing the Gunslinger though, and I would agree that it is just an Easter egg.
After what we saw of the 1st generation hosts tonight, they are clearly much more advanced robots than the movie portrayed, though. I was surprised to hear them referred to as "1st geneation", since they seem quite a bit more advanced than old Bill that Ford visits in the basement, which I would have assumed to be 1st generation. He seems closer to an animatronic from the Pirates of the Caribbean ride at Disneyland, than what we saw of the little boy in this episode. Perhaps there is a wide range of robotic advancement before leading to the "efficient" flesh-and-blood hosts, and all the older robotic models are referred to as 1st generation?
Likewise, we found out that Delores is one of the few remaining 1st generation hosts that Arnold built. We also saw Arnold's sketches of Delores, and the opposite page showed schematics of a robotic generation of hosts. I wonder how much, if any, of the 1st generation Delores remains. Maybe just the CPU, now in a flesh-and-blood body? Or, maybe William will hook up with her in an upcoming episode, only to see her split her face apart and expose her robot skull, like the little boy did?
Still loving this show!
When William entered the park in the 2nd episode, the new version of the logo was shown. The dressing room originally had the old logo as shot, and this was changed to the new logo in post production. Here is the image (found on Reddit) showing the old logo before it was changed:
And here's that thumbnail screen:
I figure that if they went to the trouble to change it, it means that William is not in some period in the past.
Another thing that doesn't jive with me about the theories of William possibly being the Man in Black is that we've seen Delores have flashbacks involving the Man in Black, directly before she escaped her family farm (and her loop) to run into William and Logan's camp.
My eyes lit up at noticing the Gunslinger though, and I would agree that it is just an Easter egg.
After what we saw of the 1st generation hosts tonight, they are clearly much more advanced robots than the movie portrayed, though. I was surprised to hear them referred to as "1st geneation", since they seem quite a bit more advanced than old Bill that Ford visits in the basement, which I would have assumed to be 1st generation. He seems closer to an animatronic from the Pirates of the Caribbean ride at Disneyland, than what we saw of the little boy in this episode. Perhaps there is a wide range of robotic advancement before leading to the "efficient" flesh-and-blood hosts, and all the older robotic models are referred to as 1st generation?
Likewise, we found out that Delores is one of the few remaining 1st generation hosts that Arnold built. We also saw Arnold's sketches of Delores, and the opposite page showed schematics of a robotic generation of hosts. I wonder how much, if any, of the 1st generation Delores remains. Maybe just the CPU, now in a flesh-and-blood body? Or, maybe William will hook up with her in an upcoming episode, only to see her split her face apart and expose her robot skull, like the little boy did?
Still loving this show!
Gimpdiggity
Master Member
This is incorrect. I just went back and watched all of the sequences showing William when he entered the park, and they all feature the old logo...the same one that was on the computer in tonight's episode.
This thumbnail that shows the new logo, in fact, doesn't even exist in the episode. There is no instance of the woman in white holding a pistol at all in the episode.
So if it was shot with one logo then changed to another in post, it was shot with the new logo and changed to the old logo, which further provides evidence of different timelines.
***EDIT***
Here is the logo at the top of the stairs when William first enters the park.
It's the old style logo.
Here's the logo in that dressing room scene, as shown by my terrible picture of my TV with my phone: :lol
Also the old style logo.
SpyderDan said:
That was the one thing that really threw me for a loop with the different timelines as well...however, I believe it was clever editing that concealed the fact that these were two different events...one having flashbacks of the MiB from the "now" timeline (possibly even just a flashback to several months ago, when MiB would basically look the same because he's only, say, a year younger) and then the other event when she runs into William and Logan.
SpyderDan said:
I thought the same thing about the first generation hosts, and old Bill. When we last saw Bill it was clear that he was very early...he makes noise when he moves, his eyes don't blink at the same speed, things like that. What I'm wondering is if Bill IS the same as these hosts that Ford is looking after in the woods, but Bill is basically just in disrepair, where Ford is keeping the ones in the woods in tip top shape...kinda like an old car...if you see a 1965 Corvette that hasn't been taken care of it rattles, shakes, makes terrible sounds...but if you see one that has been maintained, it still runs like a top. That's what I was figuring.
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Re: HBO gives us a "Westworld" remake as a series!
Not to mention he could have upgraded them.
With the car analogy: you can take a '68 Charger and drop a 392 crate motor in it. But it's still referred to as an "old" car.
I'm thinking that's what his family is.
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Not to mention he could have upgraded them.
With the car analogy: you can take a '68 Charger and drop a 392 crate motor in it. But it's still referred to as an "old" car.
I'm thinking that's what his family is.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, this thumbnail is just from the episode selection screen on the HBONOW or HBOGO apps. Probably shot that way, then changed in post to the old logo so it doesn't conflict with the 30yr old timeline.
I'd wager at some point we are going to see that DELOS globe installed in the main lobby where the trains let off after they purchase WestWorld.
Gimpdiggity
Master Member
I liked having the episode focus on our "backstage" characters. There's a ton of stuff going on behind the scenes in the park, and most of the episodes have dedicated little time to that aspect of the show. This one, however, primarily focused on that and I really enjoyed it.
Father
Sr Member
Man... you just don't know what direction some of these characters are going. Seems like they're all edging toward crossing over to what we're all pretty much waiting for:
I'm torn with the Maeve stuff. I think it's awesome seeing her getting her behavior settings changed and how it's going to effect her. But it's kind of weird that these techs are letting her manipulate them when they should be able to just shut her down and tell Cullen what's going on. I get that it's part of her personality profile to be able to play the guests, but these guys know she's a robot and how she works but they're still letting her work them over and it seems like it's more out of fear than anything else.
Teddy... he seems off his loop quite a bit as well, but hard to say if that's built into his new narrative or if he was intended to still be the victim hanging from a cactus and the MiB has thrown things off for him.
No Dolores in this episode? Weird.
This show is getting better and better.
I'm torn with the Maeve stuff. I think it's awesome seeing her getting her behavior settings changed and how it's going to effect her. But it's kind of weird that these techs are letting her manipulate them when they should be able to just shut her down and tell Cullen what's going on. I get that it's part of her personality profile to be able to play the guests, but these guys know she's a robot and how she works but they're still letting her work them over and it seems like it's more out of fear than anything else.
Teddy... he seems off his loop quite a bit as well, but hard to say if that's built into his new narrative or if he was intended to still be the victim hanging from a cactus and the MiB has thrown things off for him.
No Dolores in this episode? Weird.
This show is getting better and better.
That kind of sucks. I figured that, though, when the the Gen 1 kid's face opens up rather than the face coming off like in the movie. I was really hoping for a CGI version of Bryner like they did with Arnold in Terminator Genesis.
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