Tombstone Marshal Fred White

[simiouno]

Can you take a picture of the inside cover where the ordering info is? I need this book.

I just mailed ya bud !

 

[JohnHolliday]

Sorry I derailed the Doc Holliday thread, here's a dedicated Marshal Fred White (Tombstone) thread.

Thanks so much for the help already given there!

I haven't been able to find many good images. All the front views of him I've found cut off around the bottom of his vest. Does anybody have 3/4 length or full-length front view photos of him?

His bowler/derby appears to be more or less the colour Stetson calls Caribou, which looks grey in some shots, brown in others. Happily I've found a hat in what I think is the perfect colour.

As best I can tell he wears plain black trousers and black shoes or boots.

I've found a great match for his shirt. I have a waistcoat that's pretty good but I'll probably have a more accurate one made.

I thought his holster was plain but member Simiouno has provided photos I'd not seen showing that the leather has a tooled design. I'll start hunting for the closest holster I can find.

I have a plain black gun belt that will work but I'll need to swap out the buckle.

I've got a 3D printed Colt SAA, it will be a new challege for me to paint the case-hardened frame and ivory grips.

The badge will be tough. I don't have a great photo, but it can be seen that it's topped with an eagle with its head down, and the badge has scrolls on either side.

Here's a collage comparing a screen shot to three vintage badges.

You didn't derail my thread Hell, I'm happy talk anything about Tombstone

 

[JohnHolliday]

On the badge images above, particularly the quad badge collage:

Eagle head down

outside shape of lower badge matching the one with the eagle head up

the top banner same as two on right (texas badges)

Second banner possibly same as top right badge but placed higher and with some extra central peaks, so not just a horizontal row of letters

bottom banner same as texas badges but saying something else but not likely arizona, looks shorter like initials maybe?

but the middle is unlike all others completely custom

The downside to this is pixel size and screencap degradation. That middle part almost looks like another sculpture, animal maybe or wreath? But with such degradation in photo quality it could be just like one of the two right hand badges.

Either way this is my OCD Wonderland and I will happily fall in the hole looking for badges.

This badge is being made at the present time, it should be ready by the end of the year or the first part of next year

 

[JohnHolliday]

OK, a lot talk talking about Fred's Badge which also becomes Virgil's and rest of the Earps's badge as they go down to the O.K. Corral. A friend of mine had a badge made to match the movie badge, but he got the wording wrong on the badge. It took me FOREVER to find what the badge actually said, but let's just say my friend got MIGHTY, MIGHTY CLOSE. Below is a photo of my friend's badge. I am in the process of getting this badge made right now as I mentioned above.

 

[Dr Jones Sr]

Thanks guys!

A tip from GreenMachines led me down the Langenbacker rabbit-hole a bit.

They're well known in the Police Badge collecting world, but they're new to me, there was a firm

D R Langenbacker & Sons
Riverton Utah

who made a ton of replica badges, and also published a guide to spotting fake badges.

Here's their old catalogue Langenbacker Badges

I can't find hard dates, they seemed to have been in production in the 1980s and 1990s.

Several of their patterns are still in production and widely available, but I don't know who is making these, except for the couple Denix offers.

Browsing the internet I can't find out much about the Langenbacker firm. What I do come across are numerous mentions on Police Badge collecting forums of Langenbacker badges being passed off as originals.

I attached a couple pages from their old catalogue showing similar badges to the Tombstone badges.

#34 is the one Denix put into production, which I bought. What I need is #36 or #90.

 

[Dr Jones Sr]

OK, a lot talk talking about Fred's Badge which also becomes Virgil's and rest of the Earps's badge as they go down to the O.K. Corral. A friend of mine had a badge made to match the movie badge, but he got the wording wrong on the badge. It took me FOREVER to find what the badge actually said, but let's just say my friend got MIGHTY, MIGHTY CLOSE. Below is a photo of my friend's badge. I am in the process of getting this badge made right now as I mentioned above.

View attachment 1879014

This is fantastic! Keep me updated for sure.

 

[simiouno]

OK this one has the eagle facing the right way and all banner lines in sequence. All the Words are correct, changing city name to Tombstone of course, AND shows only state initials in the bottom meaning it matches the screen grab for shortness on the last line. The only difference I see is I think the Marshal banner should have diamond points on each end like the first badge I posted but this one has something that might look like that when blurry. I would put quite a lot of faith behind saying that this is very likely the same badge minus the city name change and AZ at the bottom.

Huge caveat, I cannot confirm on font because I cannot see even one letter of the onscreen badge. Sorry, but it could be a serif font like the deputy badge and look very different.

Brittanica says 1831 the two letter postal codes came through so confirmed on AZ.

U.S. state and territory abbreviations | List, Postal Abbreviation, & Facts | Britannica

Who came up with U.S. state abbreviations? We can largely thank the U.S. Postal Service (USPS), which has created abbreviations during much of its history. In 1831 the USPS developed its first list of state abbreviations, each consisting of two letters except Ohio’s, which was simply “O.” In 1874

www.britannica.com

So my final on text (not font) is:

First banner: "CITY" or "DEPUTY" There could be both in the movie and Fred may well have worn either so no confirmation there.

Second banner: "MARSHAL"

Third banner: "TOMBSTONE"

Fourth banner: "AZ"

https://www.jbmilitaryantiques.com.au/product/us-utah-silver-reef-city-marshal-badge-uniform-badge/

You could print this photo on good paper at the right size, glue to a backing of thin leather after changing the lettering clear coat it and attach a pin in back...

 

[simiouno]

Dr Jones Sr the idea of the recast, smoothing the etch blanks and recasting with the right letters is definitely the plan. I still want a better closeup of Fred's badge for the font though so if anyone has that pic...

As a wyatt badge I found these, any good ?

 

[greenmachines]

As a wyatt badge I found these, any good ?

The one from the Wyatt screenshot is my hopeful. It will very likely go exactly as you described, print, paste, pin. It is a completely flat badge, or only slightly spherical. I know this guy who will sell me a better one in the future and it can sit next to the Wyatt scarf I bought from him..... but for now I will make due with a paper one. I have a 20,000 dollar watch face printed on a 30 dollar watch and it looks amazing at 10 feet so I know it works.

 

[simiouno]

The one from the Wyatt screenshot is my hopeful. It will very likely go exactly as you described, print, paste, pin. It is a completely flat badge, or only slightly spherical. I know this guy who will sell me a better one in the future and it can sit next to the Wyatt scarf I bought from him..... but for now I will make due with a paper one. I have a 20,000 dollar watch face printed on a 30 dollar watch and it looks amazing at 10 feet so I know it works.

and as the movie used prop card badges at one point it's cannon

 

[smithjohnj]

Just a historical note for the badge. Arizona did not become a State until 1912. The Postal Code abbreviation in 1874 was Ariz. AZ is a modern abbreviation. Before it was a State it was called the Arizona Territory, so if you want a two-letter abbreviation, AT might provide an interesting conversation starter.

 

[Dr Jones Sr]

Just a historical note for the badge. Arizona did not become a State until 1912. The Postal Code abbreviation in 1874 was Ariz. AZ is a modern abbreviation. Before it was a State it was called the Arizona Territory, so if you want a two-letter abbreviation, AT might provide an interesting conversation starter.

This widely-produced badge has "A.T." presumably Arizona Territory.

I have no idea if this was an actual pre-1912 pattern or mere farbiness, regardless it's not right for my cosplay.

 

[Dr Jones Sr]

Here are 6 vintage and repro badges showing variations on that theme.

What about Sam Elliott's? Is it bi-metal perhaps?

 

[greenmachines]

Here are 6 vintage and repro badges showing variations on that theme.

What about Sam Elliott's? Is it bi-metal perhaps?

I think it is odd that practically everyone wore this badge and yet also wore the flat circular badge at other times in the film. Given that so many of the internet provided captures are possibly from promotional poses and posters, it would be difficult to confirm without a possible 4k screen cap which prompts me to purchase the 4k if it exists.

The good news is that Fred never wore the round one.

Race to finding the 4k and posting your screen caps starts NOW!!!!

 

[smithjohnj]

Another observation, without any real evidence, was that I took the "Nebraska Humane" badge and mirror imaged it so the eagle head points down and to the RIGHT. The reflected light pattern of this new orientation seems to match the first image greenmachines provided in Post #4. This is the kind of trick I try to extract extra information when real data is limited.

 

[smithjohnj]

duplicate

 

[Dr Jones Sr]

Tagging on to John Holliday's post about clothes that Doc Holliday might have worn, isn't it a bit strange that Fred White wears the same clothes in every scene, out on the street during the day, and in a swanky casino at night?

Doesn't he own a coat? Or a collar shirt? Or a necktie or cravat?

As it happens I have a grey frock coat from my Frank Griffin cosplay. I'll try a Fred White Sunday Go To Meetin' outfit.

 

[simiouno]

Tagging on to John Holliday's post about clothes that Doc Holliday might have worn, isn't it a bit strange that Fred White wears the same clothes in every scene, out on the street during the day, and in a swanky casino at night?

Doesn't he own a coat? Or a collar shirt? Or a necktie or cravat?

As it happens I have a grey frock coat from my Frank Griffin cosplay. I'll try a Fred White Sunday Go To Meetin' outfit.

Probably limited costume,his gun rig is reminiscent of Duke's,his old Pard !

 

[greenmachines]

Tagging on to John Holliday's post about clothes that Doc Holliday might have worn, isn't it a bit strange that Fred White wears the same clothes in every scene, out on the street during the day, and in a swanky casino at night?

Doesn't he own a coat? Or a collar shirt? Or a necktie or cravat?

As it happens I have a grey frock coat from my Frank Griffin cosplay. I'll try a Fred White Sunday Go To Meetin' outfit.

Frugal Fred

 

[simiouno]

Frugal Fred

Trying to figure movies is a mess...even with continuity checks things get thru ! Stuff changes on a daily basis...there's no knowing the hour to hour making of, so just enjoy the flick ! Analysis leads to paralysis !