ROTJ Darth Vader Graflex Stunt (MoM)(a.k.a. DV6) – by WannaWanga

[thd9791]

I don't have the ability to share (sorry!) but there is at least one photo showing this Graflex with a bottom can with 7 grips, that sort of looks messed up, near the end of ESB filming.

Because of this, my current belief is that something happened to it at the time, and the endcap was repaired. We don't have any reference of the endcap during this time, at least yet, sadly.

 

[v312]

I am in the camp of people who don’t think the makeshift “cover”, intended to cover the Graflex lettering on the bottom of the Vader MOM hilt, is original to the production.

Evidence suggests that they left this area “naked for all the world to see” on the hilts used in ESB:

View attachment 1607324

…I think this cover piece was added during the same post-production “restoration” work that also resulted in the V3 / Shared Stunt being covered in mylar wrappings and repainted to resemble the “Hero”.

View attachment 1607331

This also explains why the rivets in the Kobold D-Ring clip don’t match the size we saw in ESB….it was removed to place this cover piece down (Perhaps to cover the manufacturer’s stamping to take the hilt on tour??) and then re-riveted back in place with a slightly different size of rivet (you can even see the marks from the prior rivets scratched into the surface of the Kobold clip).

View attachment 1607338

I won’t be adding this detail to my own build, personally.

Hmm .. they could just cover it with tape like the v3 clamp and like Disney did on theirs for that purpose (to hide the stamp).
And isn't it just too ugly and sloppy made to be for any exhibition preparation/restoration reasons? And why bother to re-rivet the clip? it's not supposed to be there on a Vader saber anyway.
For these reasons I believe the lower was already like this when it was still a Luke's hilt.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Hmm .. they could just cover it with tape like the v3 clamp and like Disney did on theirs for that purpose (to hide the stamp).
And isn't it just too ugly and sloppy made to be for any exhibition preparation/restoration reasons? And why bother to re-rivet the clip? it's not supposed to be there on a Vader saber anyway.
For these reasons I believe the lower was already like this when it was still a Luke's hilt.

Hmmmm….well, two things:

1. Why put a cover on the end cap of a stunt? Evidence suggests they didn’t go to these lengths, even for a stunt that was seeen in close-up photography.

2. Why is there evidence of the them removing and re-riveting the Kobold to the bottom of the hilt (with incongruent rivet sizes)?

 

[v312]

Hmmmm….well, two things:

1. Why put I on the end cap of a stunt? Evidence suggests they didn’t go to these lengths, even for a stunt that was seeen in close-up photography.

View attachment 1607465

2. Why is there evidence of the them removing and relooking the Kobold of the bottom plate was was original to the hilt?

View attachment 1607467

We know that the Wampa cave scene was not intended to be shoot like this originally, and they improvised on set with the stunt as they could not figure out a good way to make that practical effect with the hero. So they didn't bother or didn't have the time to cover the stamp ( and also to reshoot the scenes where the saber is just laying flat on the snow).

What happened after that it is hard to tell. It's maybe the same kobold, and it for sure looks re-riveted (or those are just tool marks?) and the lower part has holes that suggest it once had notched grips with screws - but I'm not aware of a 100% proof that they are actually the same (although I believe most likely they are).

 

[Captain Dunsel]

We know that the Wampa cave scene was not intended to be shoot like this originally, and they improvised on set with the stunt as they could not figure out a good way to make that practical effect with the hero. So they didn't bother or didn't have the time to cover the stamp ( and also to reshoot the scenes where the saber is just laying flat on the snow).

What happened after that it is hard to tell. It's maybe the same kobold, and it for sure looks reriveted (or those are just tool marks?) and the lower part has holes that suggest it once had notched grips with screws - but I'm not aware of a 100% proof that they are actually the same (although I believe most likely they are).

thd9791 didn’t you have a post, somewhere, where you concluded that based upon the damage to the Kobold clip, the bottom half of the MOM Vader was a match to the “Wampa Cave Stunt”?

 

[Halliwax]

I will say… the deleted scene with Luke and yoda on dagobah and Luke’s cutting the bar of aluminum..

I’m willing to bet my life the metal cap is under the Kobold there…

 

[Halliwax]

thd9791 didn’t you have a post, somewhere, where you concluded that based upon the damage to the Kobold clip, the bottom half of the MOM Vader was a match to the “Wampa Cave Stunt”?

View attachment 1607496View attachment 1607497

Same d ring same Kobold but different rivets, for some reason they threw this on a new bottom can

There has been a small group working on this for over a year, it has been so confusing because of this “can swap” but evidence is leaning towards, for some reason.. they had to install a new bottom can; and when they did put that metal plate on.

I am currently working on a video explaining everything, just waiting for parts to come in

I am wicked excited about this because we have been discussing this for over a year and FINALLY things have finally come together with new evidence

This graflex went through a ton of changes, and I believe it’s because of marks complaining about the grips..

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Interesting that the surviving Dagobah Belt Hanger bottom (Now part of the Skywalker Ranch Hilt) doesn’t have a makeshift cover over the GRAFLEX bottom stamping…

 

[v312]

thd9791 didn’t you have a post, somewhere, where you concluded that based upon the damage to the Kobold clip, the bottom half of the MOM Vader was a match to the “Wampa Cave Stunt”?

View attachment 1607496View attachment 1607497

Yes, we discussed this here ESB Graflex D rings - a discussion
To me the biggest tells are the chipped chrome plating in the corner and the shape of the d-ring. The damage from the d-ring being smashed against the kobold has a relatively higher chance to happen on another ring/kobold pair if you for example drop the saber on a hard surface. And there are marks are around the rivets already on the wampa cave scene, so it is not clear where they came from originally. Still, I'll consider this just a theory rather than a "hard" fact, even if I'm 99% convinced that it is true.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

I have the distinct feeling that I am in the unenviable position of being of the minority opinion regarding whether the bottom plate of the MOM Vader saber reflects its actual production appearance in ESB or ROTJ.

I’ll of course yield to the consensus of the majority.

 

[thd9791]

Boy I should really get going on that new thread, sorry Halliwax lol I need to sit down and draw this out. Going to run it by you

 

[Halliwax]

Boy I should really get going on that new thread, sorry Halliwax lol I need to sit down and draw this out. Going to run it by you

I still think we have alot of work to do, I am saying this because I don’t want people drilling holes where they don’t belong

I’d have a lot of people throwing tomatoes at me

 

[roygilsing]

I was out for a week and it's exciting to read all these new comments! I really hope this new thread will combine all these findings in a comprehensive way because right now I'm completely confused and need to read everything again. And then I hope SethS can also bring all this information to an updated saber guide.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Finally had a chance to finish the assembly and give this saber a first pass of weathering. Tried to go for how it might have looked during ROTJ filming rather than the totally neglected state it is in today. Awesome, awesome kit roygilsing I really enjoyed this build.

View attachment 1606342
View attachment 1606344
View attachment 1606345
View attachment 1606343

You know, I believe that those of us building either the production version of the MOM Vader or an ESB GRAFLEX Stunt would need to also replace the cut-down blade mounting rod with a full-length mounting rod.

Correct?

 

[Dewy]

You know, I believe that those of us building either the production version of the MOM Vader or an ESB GRAFLEX Stunt would need to also replace the cut-down blade rod with a full-length rod.

Correct?

Depending on what you mean by full-length, you’re probably right. Not full blade length, right? Do we have any reference of a stunt saber with the blade removed. I’m guessing the rod stuck out 6-12” from the prop emitter? The groove seen on the what’s left of the blade attachment would be a recess for a blade set screw.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Depending on what you mean by full-length, you’re probably right. Not full blade length, right? Do we have any reference of a stunt saber with the blade removed. I’m guessing the rod stuck out 6-12” from the prop emitter? The groove seen on the what’s left of the blade attachment would be a recess for a blade set screw.

Yeah, in order to properly hold a blade, I am assuming the mounting post must have originally been the length seen in other examples, like the pipe stunts (around 3” - 4”in length).

(Replica pipe stunt hilt below)

Unless we have evidence that the blade mounting rod was always hacked off and they were able to properly mount a stunt blade to the hilt, even with the small nub that is currently seen on the hilt?

If the stunt Graflexes had a longer mounting rod, to begin with, then I assume that the mounting rod was removed altogether when one was used as a belt hanger—or, the hacked down mounting rod nub was always there…(?)

 

[Halliwax]

I was out for a week and it's exciting to read all these new comments! I really hope this new thread will combine all these findings in a comprehensive way because right now I'm completely confused and need to read everything again. And then I hope SethS can also bring all this information to an updated saber guide.

Don’t invest too much time, this stuff is changing daily. Still need to lock it down

 

[Halliwax]

Yeah, in order to properly hold a blade, I am assuming the mounting post must have originally been the length seen in other examples, like the pipe stunts (around 3” - 4”in length).

(Replica pipe stunt hilt below)

View attachment 1608115

Unless we have evidence that the blade mounting rod was always hacked off and they were able to properly mount a stunt blade to the hilt, even with the small nub that is currently seen on the hilt?

View attachment 1608125

If the stunt Graflexes had a longer mounting rod, to begin with, then I assume that the mounting rod was removed altogether when one was used as a belt hanger—or, the hacked down mounting rod nub was always there…(?)

View attachment 1608137

This is one of my concerns.. it sure does look like that blade was hacked off.. and folded to separate. Possibly the hack saw couldn’t cut any further because it would touch the flash? I don’t know.. but for some reason the rod was folded over to separate

I would THINK they would have cut the end of the rod flush and smooth to allow the blade collar to slide over it easily

In my experience one little burr really hinders things.. I find it hard to believe this “hack and fold” was how they “finished” the stunt.. then again we have seen much worse

BUT with that rod at that length today, it should be covered by what’s left of the bunny ear bulb release in that photo

I’m a firm believer in, what ever these prop guys took off. Most of the time it never went back on, which is not always the case, but more so then not..

I am really debating on what the small bolts are in the flash.. some times I see cap bolts, some times I see flat, and on the vader stunt today I see nothing..

If there is no bolts there (today) and it’s empty holes.. then that means this thing was really taken apart.. and if so. Maybe they installed a rod again?

As of right now, there are no photos I’ve seen except for the broken Luke motor stunt, showing how long the rod is

Which is roughly 2-1/2” long

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Woah…could the Dagobah Stunt belt hanger be the MOM Vader in totality?? (Maybe I missed this being discussed before.)

This appears to possibly be a seven grip bottom and, there are no notches seen in the grips for screw mounting of the T-Track.

Edit: Unfortunately the grip placement doesn’t appear to match the MOM Vader grip placement.

 

[Anakin Starkiller]

Do we know the shooting schedule for ESB? What was the order Dagobah water, Dagobah Cave, Bespin duel, or was it Bespin Duel, Dagobah Cave, Dagobah water?