Buch
Sr Member
Well that only took a year.
Nice! Creed or Hayward?
Help Identifying or Reproducing Constantine Keychain
- Thread starter Tmsray2954
- Start date
Nice! Creed or Hayward?
Hayward, popped on eBay a few weeks ago. I'll post more photos this weekend. It was being sold as a single medal identified as a Hayward Catholic medal. I've been looking at 3-500 ebay auctions per day for over a year. This is the 1st one that I've seen. I was bidding against one other bidder. I'm assuming it was someone here because they were aggressively bidding.
Attached are high res scans of the Hayward seven gifts medal and the ebay auction pictures. The auction was through Goodwill of Northern New England. Anyone searching may want to look in the north east US for this medal due the proximity to Attelboro, Massachusetts. Hawyward was headquarterd in Attelboro and apparently was the jewelry hub for the US in the early 1900s. The Hayward trademark was canceled in 2001 due to lack of renewal.
THE WALTER E. HAYWARD COMPANY
F. G. Whitney and E. W. Davenport formed the firm of F. G. Whitney & Company in 1849, and operated for half a century in the inexpensive jewelry field of production, building up a big foreign business. In 1851, Thompson, Hayward & Co. began business and four years later the name was changed to Hayward & Briggs. In 1859 the original plant was burned and a new concern, C. E. Hayward & Company rebuilt. This designation continued until 1886 when the firm became known as Hayward & Sweet, and in 1891 it was incorporated as the Walter E. Hayward Company. Frank E. Smith is president, Elmer S. Smith, vice president, Walter G. Moon, secretary, and Frank J. Ryder, treasurer of the concern. For many years this company manufactured only 18-carat gold products and it soon became the most important jewelry unit in the east part of Attleboro.
The Hayward trademark was first used in 1957, registration granted in 1960, last renewed in 1980 and cancelled in 2001 due to lack of renewal. Another registration was found for Hayward Luxury, and listed as related to Hayward jewelery trademark, that was canceled in 2020 with an original application filing date of 09/13/1947. Hayward Luxury was revived and partly owned by Denis Hopper’s (Easy Rider) daughter Marin Hopper, manufacturing luxury hand bags.
HAYWARD - Hayward Luxury Inc. Trademark Registration
Hayward Luxury,
Hayward Luxury Exemplifies a Brand Story Done Right | NetSuite
THE WALTER E. HAYWARD COMPANY
F. G. Whitney and E. W. Davenport formed the firm of F. G. Whitney & Company in 1849, and operated for half a century in the inexpensive jewelry field of production, building up a big foreign business. In 1851, Thompson, Hayward & Co. began business and four years later the name was changed to Hayward & Briggs. In 1859 the original plant was burned and a new concern, C. E. Hayward & Company rebuilt. This designation continued until 1886 when the firm became known as Hayward & Sweet, and in 1891 it was incorporated as the Walter E. Hayward Company. Frank E. Smith is president, Elmer S. Smith, vice president, Walter G. Moon, secretary, and Frank J. Ryder, treasurer of the concern. For many years this company manufactured only 18-carat gold products and it soon became the most important jewelry unit in the east part of Attleboro.
The Hayward trademark was first used in 1957, registration granted in 1960, last renewed in 1980 and cancelled in 2001 due to lack of renewal. Another registration was found for Hayward Luxury, and listed as related to Hayward jewelery trademark, that was canceled in 2020 with an original application filing date of 09/13/1947. Hayward Luxury was revived and partly owned by Denis Hopper’s (Easy Rider) daughter Marin Hopper, manufacturing luxury hand bags.
HAYWARD - Hayward Luxury Inc. Trademark Registration
Hayward Luxury,
Hayward Luxury Exemplifies a Brand Story Done Right | NetSuite
Attachments
NoiAlibi
New Member
Hi everyone,
I just wanted to share a little about my search journey. I’m from Asia, and finding these medals has been a huge challenge — not only tracking down the right models, but also making sure the sizes are correct. It honestly feels like trying to find needles in a haystack sometimes.
I’m incredibly grateful to Mach and Tenaciousbt for taking the time to answer my questions and share so many helpful search tips with me. Your kindness really means a lot, especially to someone like me who joined the hunt so much later. I only wish I had found this thread sooner.
Reading through this thread from the very beginning was really moving — seeing how everyone worked together, sharing information and helping each other piece by piece until the medal keychain was completed. It’s truly inspiring.
Now, this search has become a kind of emotional anchor for me too — something that gives me motivation and hope during tough days.
This year also marks the 20th anniversary of Constantine’s release, which makes this journey feel even more meaningful to me. I hope to someday recreate the keychain faithfully, as a tribute to the story and to the incredible community spirit here.
Right now, I’m still looking for these medals:
• JC-111-1MFT (St Joseph Saint Medal Pendant w/Chain by Jeweled Cross)
• JC-152/1MFT (Jeweled Cross Our Lady of Perpetual Help Medal)
• SS442 (the Creed Silver Four-Way Medal)
• 80-132SS-24S (Mater Dolorosa/Our Lady of Seven Sorrows)
• SC711 (Vintage Marathon Four-Way Scapular)
If anyone happens to have extras they might consider parting with, or any leads, I would be deeply grateful. I know it’s a long shot, but I thought it was worth reaching out!
Thank you all for keeping this amazing thread alive. It gives people like me hope that someday, with enough patience and perseverance, we might complete the set too.
I just wanted to share a little about my search journey. I’m from Asia, and finding these medals has been a huge challenge — not only tracking down the right models, but also making sure the sizes are correct. It honestly feels like trying to find needles in a haystack sometimes.
I’m incredibly grateful to Mach and Tenaciousbt for taking the time to answer my questions and share so many helpful search tips with me. Your kindness really means a lot, especially to someone like me who joined the hunt so much later. I only wish I had found this thread sooner.
Reading through this thread from the very beginning was really moving — seeing how everyone worked together, sharing information and helping each other piece by piece until the medal keychain was completed. It’s truly inspiring.
Now, this search has become a kind of emotional anchor for me too — something that gives me motivation and hope during tough days.
This year also marks the 20th anniversary of Constantine’s release, which makes this journey feel even more meaningful to me. I hope to someday recreate the keychain faithfully, as a tribute to the story and to the incredible community spirit here.
Right now, I’m still looking for these medals:
• JC-111-1MFT (St Joseph Saint Medal Pendant w/Chain by Jeweled Cross)
• JC-152/1MFT (Jeweled Cross Our Lady of Perpetual Help Medal)
• SS442 (the Creed Silver Four-Way Medal)
• 80-132SS-24S (Mater Dolorosa/Our Lady of Seven Sorrows)
• SC711 (Vintage Marathon Four-Way Scapular)
If anyone happens to have extras they might consider parting with, or any leads, I would be deeply grateful. I know it’s a long shot, but I thought it was worth reaching out!
Thank you all for keeping this amazing thread alive. It gives people like me hope that someday, with enough patience and perseverance, we might complete the set too.
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I did some checking this afternoon.
I spoke with Heavenly Divine Rosaries who helped me with the Bliss medals when I was searching. I'm told that Bliss is creating the medals on order so the Mater Dolorosa and the St. Aloysius are reported to still be available. I'll post links when they confirm stock.
The Singer wreathed cross is still available, per HDR and Singer's website, but they are confirming with Singer.
All Jeweled Cross medals that we are looking for are not available. The brand still exists and is owned by Christian Brands who is manufacturing through China with smaller medals. These no longer match the screen used ones.
The Marathon medal is no longer available via Georgetti stock. I confirmed with Marathon Co that the item is now discontinued and no plans to restock. Ebay or etsy are your best bet.
The Creed 7 way is not available and is down to finding it on ebay or etsy. Look for Hayward or Creed when searching. Both are clearly marked on their respective versions of the medal.
The HMH Seven Way medal is quite popular and I see them on ebay/etsy quite frequently. Its available new but I'd recommend finding an old one as the new ones have facets cut into them.
Madonna tear drop pendant should still be "findable". I found several when I was looking.
I have 8 extra ILCO 1055A keys. I'm hanging on to a few extras that I got from another forum member. If there is interest, I'll post the extras in the junkyard.
I don't have any of the original trunk keys.
I spoke with Heavenly Divine Rosaries who helped me with the Bliss medals when I was searching. I'm told that Bliss is creating the medals on order so the Mater Dolorosa and the St. Aloysius are reported to still be available. I'll post links when they confirm stock.
The Singer wreathed cross is still available, per HDR and Singer's website, but they are confirming with Singer.
All Jeweled Cross medals that we are looking for are not available. The brand still exists and is owned by Christian Brands who is manufacturing through China with smaller medals. These no longer match the screen used ones.
The Marathon medal is no longer available via Georgetti stock. I confirmed with Marathon Co that the item is now discontinued and no plans to restock. Ebay or etsy are your best bet.
The Creed 7 way is not available and is down to finding it on ebay or etsy. Look for Hayward or Creed when searching. Both are clearly marked on their respective versions of the medal.
The HMH Seven Way medal is quite popular and I see them on ebay/etsy quite frequently. Its available new but I'd recommend finding an old one as the new ones have facets cut into them.
Madonna tear drop pendant should still be "findable". I found several when I was looking.
I have 8 extra ILCO 1055A keys. I'm hanging on to a few extras that I got from another forum member. If there is interest, I'll post the extras in the junkyard.
I don't have any of the original trunk keys.
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I posted the keys to the Junkyard. One other thing, if you haven't checked AuctionSieve ebay searching software, then google it. It may help searching ebay. It does for me. I'm not affiliated with the developer in anyway. I just wished it supported Etsy.
I'm going to have several of the unobtainable medals 3D scanned with the intent of reproducing them if I should lose my keychain. Assuming it works out, these would be high res scans with an Artec jewelry scanner. I can get into the details on my plans later.
For now, I was curious about what the enthusiasts here think about the idea. Does it diminish the significant efforts put into building the keychain or is it an aid to be able to buy a replica of one or more of the medals that are seemingly no longer available? This is not an expression of interest question but navel gazing about if this akin to the "to recast or not to recast" question.
I know laelee has provided reproductions for some of the medals. I view that as a positive but I am curious about your thoughts.
For now, I was curious about what the enthusiasts here think about the idea. Does it diminish the significant efforts put into building the keychain or is it an aid to be able to buy a replica of one or more of the medals that are seemingly no longer available? This is not an expression of interest question but navel gazing about if this akin to the "to recast or not to recast" question.
I know laelee has provided reproductions for some of the medals. I view that as a positive but I am curious about your thoughts.
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Credit to NoiAlibi for this find, ILCO apparently made a replacement key for what we've been calling a Corbin trunk key. ILCO 1076A would seem to be a match for the trunk key.
The 1076AR key shown below is the reverse version but ILCO made a trunk key blank (1076A) like the movie one going all the way back to at least 1936. This give us another search criteria. I have a catalog coming that I'll post of pics and cross references. Also an interesting coincidence, the 1055A key is also shown on the same catalog page.
Joel does a great job explaining the oval hole vs the round hole differences here: Help Identifying or Reproducing Constantine Keychain. I'll review the catalog pages when I get them but looks like adding 8682 and 1076 to your key searches may be useful.
Talking with a seller on ebay, apparently Graham manufactured replacement blanks for the Corbin key as well, number 2640c looks correct but likely not long enough. 2640f looks to be the correct length but with the wrong circular hole.
The 1076AR key shown below is the reverse version but ILCO made a trunk key blank (1076A) like the movie one going all the way back to at least 1936. This give us another search criteria. I have a catalog coming that I'll post of pics and cross references. Also an interesting coincidence, the 1055A key is also shown on the same catalog page.
Joel does a great job explaining the oval hole vs the round hole differences here: Help Identifying or Reproducing Constantine Keychain. I'll review the catalog pages when I get them but looks like adding 8682 and 1076 to your key searches may be useful.
Talking with a seller on ebay, apparently Graham manufactured replacement blanks for the Corbin key as well, number 2640c looks correct but likely not long enough. 2640f looks to be the correct length but with the wrong circular hole.
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NoiAlibi
New Member
So glad it helped! Can’t wait to see the catalog pics when it arrives — this is all super exciting. Appreciate you looking so deep into it!
Feels like we’re cracking a decades-old code here haha.
Also, this key really fits the movie vibe — the bow almost looks like a skull, which makes it even cooler.
Below are links to Heavenly Divine Rosaries for the Bliss and Singer medals. Bliss is apparently manufacturing on demand. Singer restocked last year but I have not checked on stock levels. Prices have increased 20-30% in the last few years. On the Bliss medals, you can request no facets to be cut into the medals. I don't believe the originals had them but it seem to be the trend now. Post 155 has examples of where the newer HMH 7 way medals have facets too.
Mater Dolorosa
St. Aloyius
Singer 4 way wreathed cross
Mater Dolorosa
St. Aloyius
Singer 4 way wreathed cross
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Currently working on getting 4 of the medals scanned starting with the Creed 7 gifts medal and the Marathon 5 way medal. I've got questions on the maker's marks for those. I figure might as well get it as close to the originals as possible.
I don't see a mark on the back of the Creed medal. Mine is a Hayward medal and is clearly stamped. If you have a Creed one, does it have a maker's mark? looking at the Propstore photos, it almost looks as the marks were filled on the seven gifts medal but it's tough to tell.
Also on the Marathon medal, I don't recognize the makers mark there either. My current version nor the Theda mark matches. Anybody know what it is? I can squint my way to believing it's an older Marathon mark. Marathon has been in business for awhile so the dates work.
From Signed Theda vintage costume jewelry - Jewellery Kaleidoscope
The history of Theda jewelry trademark began one hundred years ago in Providence, Rhode Island. The trademark was owned by Ideal Jewelry Mfg. Co., incorporated in 1921 and located at 21 Eddy Street, Providence, RI.
The company’s craftsmen used sterling silver, marcasite, rhodium plating, 12 K gold, cultured pearl, amethyst, jade, topaz and rhinestones. Traditionally, they worked in etching technique, hand engraving floral patterns on silver. Ideal Mfg. Co signed their pieces “Theda sterling”. Ideal went out of business in 1994.
Noteworthy, the company went through several renewals and changes of owners and addresses. Thus, renewed in 1963 Theda trademark ceased to exist in the 1980s. Also, reregistered in 1988 in Cranston, RI, Theda became inactive in 1995.
I believe Marathon acquired the die(s) at that time. As the Theda mark was part of the die already, Marathon would have removed it and material from the die to produce a raised section on the lower portion of the medal back. This would have left a clean area for the Marathon mark to be struck. A similiar process was probably used to rework the original Theda die to produce the 2nd Theda medal below. Its notable that the medals get thinner in the progression from left to right. Also the middle Theda medal had a sliding cover on the back. When removing it, it left the bail eyelet deformed similar to the movie prop. I can post comparison pics if interested. I've asked Marathon for any info on the history of the medal.
On the Bliss Mater Dolorosa and the St Aloysius medals, neither are marked as Bliss medals. The Mater Dolorosa does have a copyright from what looks like 1962? which predates Bliss which was formed in 1995.
I don't see a mark on the back of the Creed medal. Mine is a Hayward medal and is clearly stamped. If you have a Creed one, does it have a maker's mark? looking at the Propstore photos, it almost looks as the marks were filled on the seven gifts medal but it's tough to tell.
Also on the Marathon medal, I don't recognize the makers mark there either. My current version nor the Theda mark matches. Anybody know what it is? I can squint my way to believing it's an older Marathon mark. Marathon has been in business for awhile so the dates work.
From Signed Theda vintage costume jewelry - Jewellery Kaleidoscope
The history of Theda jewelry trademark began one hundred years ago in Providence, Rhode Island. The trademark was owned by Ideal Jewelry Mfg. Co., incorporated in 1921 and located at 21 Eddy Street, Providence, RI.
The company’s craftsmen used sterling silver, marcasite, rhodium plating, 12 K gold, cultured pearl, amethyst, jade, topaz and rhinestones. Traditionally, they worked in etching technique, hand engraving floral patterns on silver. Ideal Mfg. Co signed their pieces “Theda sterling”. Ideal went out of business in 1994.
Noteworthy, the company went through several renewals and changes of owners and addresses. Thus, renewed in 1963 Theda trademark ceased to exist in the 1980s. Also, reregistered in 1988 in Cranston, RI, Theda became inactive in 1995.
I believe Marathon acquired the die(s) at that time. As the Theda mark was part of the die already, Marathon would have removed it and material from the die to produce a raised section on the lower portion of the medal back. This would have left a clean area for the Marathon mark to be struck. A similiar process was probably used to rework the original Theda die to produce the 2nd Theda medal below. Its notable that the medals get thinner in the progression from left to right. Also the middle Theda medal had a sliding cover on the back. When removing it, it left the bail eyelet deformed similar to the movie prop. I can post comparison pics if interested. I've asked Marathon for any info on the history of the medal.
On the Bliss Mater Dolorosa and the St Aloysius medals, neither are marked as Bliss medals. The Mater Dolorosa does have a copyright from what looks like 1962? which predates Bliss which was formed in 1995.
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I was waiting to see how it was going to go. I can 3d model the medals, but they won't be as accurate as quality scans or high def molds.
They can always be molded in high-temp silicone to make very accurate repros in pewter, silver, whatever you could want. That's what I would do if I had the pieces in-hand, definitely faster than modeling anyways too lol.
I have the equipment to make the molds but was hoping to use the scans for the OLP and the St. Joseph medal. I was planning to make both of them out of composite scans of Jeweled Cross medals. I can mold the 7 Gifts, Marathon and the Madonna tear drop. Not much point in doing the Singer cross and the Bliss medals as they are still available new. The HMH 7 way is easy to find and buy new. I'll see what I can do by molding the Hayward.
Here's a screen shot of the STL and comparison to the medal. The scan was taken using a photogrammetry scanner and we're at the limits of the current technology. I'll try a test mold to see how far we can get with wax->cast replicas. The only thing other idea that I have is taking hi rez photos to an image depth map to a fiber laser engraver.
On a different note, a very nice gentleman at Bliss Mfg got back to me on the reasons behind the maker's mark on the Mater Dolorosa medal. You'll need to decided if its good news or bad.
The copyright Unique 1962 does refer to the Unique Medal and Badge Company, which Bliss acquired some time after that. We continue to manufacturer Unique Medals, but with the Bliss Quality Stamp.
From Lost USR — Upper Saddle River Historical Society
The Unique Medal and Badge Company was located on a four-acre lot at 67 Old Stone Church Road next to the building that had been Walthery’s blacksmith/wheelwright shop (see below), where Patriot’s Lane is now. It specialized in Catholic medals and badges and was founded in 1896 by Frederick Koch (b. 1862 Germany), who lived in Teaneck until the 1930s when they moved to Old Stone Church Road (possibly moving the company there at the same time). His son, Louis Arthur Peter Koch, who was born in Tenafly in 1898, took over the business in 1935 and and ran until he moved to West Palm Beach, FL. Koch sold the home and adjacent business in 1960 to Myrtle “Mimi” C. Kutschinski Miller (b. 1908 MI) and Edward “Eddie” B. Miller (b. 1910 Indiana). There was a small one-story, wood-frame bungalow on the property about 100 feet from the main home which caught fire in 1963 killing the manager and secretary of their company, Philip John Newman, 24, who ate all his meals in the Miller’s home and was like a son to them. No record has been located as to when the badge company was closed or sold.
So if you want an extra hard challenge, find the Mater Dolorosa medal with the Unique 1962 maker's mark.
Lastly the key catalog arrived. 1076A with an oval hole and the 1055A look to be the right keys. A 1076A shank would be an excellent donor for a soldered key combined with a partial head from a Corbin WBS or WBT series key that has the correct oval hole but are reversed. One other notable find, the key catalog shows actual cutting patterns for 1055A keys. I haven't matched a pattern yet but its interesting. Lastly, confirming the Hartman keys are good stand-ins for the 1076A and the TTD variants of the 1076A are reversed and will not work.
On a different note, a very nice gentleman at Bliss Mfg got back to me on the reasons behind the maker's mark on the Mater Dolorosa medal. You'll need to decided if its good news or bad.
The copyright Unique 1962 does refer to the Unique Medal and Badge Company, which Bliss acquired some time after that. We continue to manufacturer Unique Medals, but with the Bliss Quality Stamp.
From Lost USR — Upper Saddle River Historical Society
The Unique Medal and Badge Company was located on a four-acre lot at 67 Old Stone Church Road next to the building that had been Walthery’s blacksmith/wheelwright shop (see below), where Patriot’s Lane is now. It specialized in Catholic medals and badges and was founded in 1896 by Frederick Koch (b. 1862 Germany), who lived in Teaneck until the 1930s when they moved to Old Stone Church Road (possibly moving the company there at the same time). His son, Louis Arthur Peter Koch, who was born in Tenafly in 1898, took over the business in 1935 and and ran until he moved to West Palm Beach, FL. Koch sold the home and adjacent business in 1960 to Myrtle “Mimi” C. Kutschinski Miller (b. 1908 MI) and Edward “Eddie” B. Miller (b. 1910 Indiana). There was a small one-story, wood-frame bungalow on the property about 100 feet from the main home which caught fire in 1963 killing the manager and secretary of their company, Philip John Newman, 24, who ate all his meals in the Miller’s home and was like a son to them. No record has been located as to when the badge company was closed or sold.
So if you want an extra hard challenge, find the Mater Dolorosa medal with the Unique 1962 maker's mark.
Lastly the key catalog arrived. 1076A with an oval hole and the 1055A look to be the right keys. A 1076A shank would be an excellent donor for a soldered key combined with a partial head from a Corbin WBS or WBT series key that has the correct oval hole but are reversed. One other notable find, the key catalog shows actual cutting patterns for 1055A keys. I haven't matched a pattern yet but its interesting. Lastly, confirming the Hartman keys are good stand-ins for the 1076A and the TTD variants of the 1076A are reversed and will not work.
Attachments
NoiAlibi
New Member
Appreciate the thorough research. Sigh — the closest I could find is a 1076AR, it seems to be made of the same brass material, however, the direction is opposite.
If there is interest, I can offer my keys again (the Shapeways shakeup made me have to re-source a manufacturer). I'm happy with them, but of course you can't really do better than actual vintage keys when they come up.
NoiAlibi
New Member
Thanks — I’m interested. I’ll send you a PM to ask a bit more about the material options.
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