This one springs to mind 
ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet update
- Thread starter propsculptor
- Start date
That's nice, is that an ESB Helmet?
I thought this piece was not thought to be an original ESB anymore. Wasn't there speculation on it's true ID?
Darth Kahnt
Sr Member
Yep, its legit.
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Definitely not an ESB dome... also, the dome is positioned like a DP DLX.
Darth Kahnt
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NoHumorMan @ Nov 28 2006, 09:30 AM) [snapback]1366857[/snapback]</div>
The DP deluxe dome sits differently than that, the one in the picture sits straighter.
The DP deluxe dome sits differently than that, the one in the picture sits straighter.
bigbaddaddyvader
Well-Known Member
To all you Vader guys out there making these contributions I want to send a big thanks.I am really learning a LOT about the big man and his pieces.
The dome could be later on...I agree about the center ridge shape where the widow's peak would be...more like ROTJ. But the flare profile in front view...the shape of it...is ESB, whereas ROTJ it's more spread out to the sides...or at least I think Vader's right side of that flaring is out a bit more, like the 20th C dome. If you look at the inside, though, and the letter...that letter seems similar to the one inside Desi's original ESB dome.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GINO @ Nov 28 2006, 11:57 AM) [snapback]1366976[/snapback]</div>
Possible, but it's hard to say when it's been cleaned up that much, and that cleaned up helmet could have been the basis for the DP. And what about the letter inside? I know that doesn't say it's screen-used but suggests it is original. I agree that it doesn't match the screen ESB castings, but again it's a matter of to what extent Bies cleaned it up.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GINO @ Nov 28 2006, 11:57 AM) [snapback]1366976[/snapback]</div>
Possible, but it's hard to say when it's been cleaned up that much, and that cleaned up helmet could have been the basis for the DP. And what about the letter inside? I know that doesn't say it's screen-used but suggests it is original. I agree that it doesn't match the screen ESB castings, but again it's a matter of to what extent Bies cleaned it up.
Not to hijack this thread but there is a pic of the supposed mount of this piece on another forum. It's definately not ESB. ROTJ possibly although I doubt it or pre-DPDLX.
The owner of this piece does not own what they think they have. Very sad really, and it doesnt matter that it was auctioned for charity :thumbsdown
The owner of this piece does not own what they think they have. Very sad really, and it doesnt matter that it was auctioned for charity :thumbsdown
Studio Stasis
Sr Member
That helmet was originally sold by Lucasfilm at the Directors Guild of America to Jim Latta. I was co-hosting a show on the sci-fi channel and interviewed Jim about this helmet. If anyone here would like to offer server space I can upload the actual interview to you to share with everyone, and the helmet display is sitting between us during the interview. Jim shows his letter of authenticity by Lucasfilm and Don Bies was later present at a Pasadena convention in 1994 when the Vader was put on display next to the David Prowse signing table.
The funny thing is I sat at an autograph table next to David Prowse and he repeatedly denied that it was a film used helmet. I asked him why he felt it wasn't used in the film and he said "the helmet that I wore was all black. This silver stuff wasnt on it". I wanted so badly to pick up every picture on his autograph table that he brought with him and show him the silver highlights on the helmet in the photos. He just had no clue.
Anyway, the wording that Jim Latta used in the interview was that the way this helmet was found at Skywalker Ranch that it was used in ROTJ and possibly in ESB as well, due to the "way it was found". Seeing the helmet in person in 94, I was a firm believer that it was screen used. I told Jim that the dome looked like it was angled very oddly and looked wrong. He said that he knew, and he wished he could take it apart and reangle it. Thanks to Don Bies for screwing that up.
Josh
The funny thing is I sat at an autograph table next to David Prowse and he repeatedly denied that it was a film used helmet. I asked him why he felt it wasn't used in the film and he said "the helmet that I wore was all black. This silver stuff wasnt on it". I wanted so badly to pick up every picture on his autograph table that he brought with him and show him the silver highlights on the helmet in the photos. He just had no clue.
Anyway, the wording that Jim Latta used in the interview was that the way this helmet was found at Skywalker Ranch that it was used in ROTJ and possibly in ESB as well, due to the "way it was found". Seeing the helmet in person in 94, I was a firm believer that it was screen used. I told Jim that the dome looked like it was angled very oddly and looked wrong. He said that he knew, and he wished he could take it apart and reangle it. Thanks to Don Bies for screwing that up.
Josh
Studio Stasis
Sr Member
I was no Vader expert when I saw this helmet in person, but I knew Vader and the helmet looked wonky and stupid by the way the dome was positioned. Jim almost took offense to my question about its mounting and I could tell it always bugged him. He told me that Don had done the mounting and made more effort to make the mount irreversible than correctly angled. So the mounting is terribly angled AND nearly impossible to remove. Genius.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GINO @ Nov 28 2006, 01:24 PM) [snapback]1367153[/snapback]</div>
I don't know about them being screen used, but the Lucasfilm documentation says it was. That's really crappy of them to say that if it wasn't.
I wonder why David Prowse thinks the helmet was all black. He has issues.
Also, in 1994, Don Bies and Jim Latta gave Prowse a Vader helmet in a glass case at the Pasadena Convention Center and they must have known all about the Prowse argument because the helmet that they presented him with was all black with a gorgeous clear coat. I thought it looked really weird all black.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GINO @ Nov 28 2006, 01:24 PM) [snapback]1367153[/snapback]</div>
I don't know about them being screen used, but the Lucasfilm documentation says it was. That's really crappy of them to say that if it wasn't.
I wonder why David Prowse thinks the helmet was all black. He has issues.
Also, in 1994, Don Bies and Jim Latta gave Prowse a Vader helmet in a glass case at the Pasadena Convention Center and they must have known all about the Prowse argument because the helmet that they presented him with was all black with a gorgeous clear coat. I thought it looked really weird all black.
GINO
Sr Member
Recently at the SMI exhibit, I spoke with Don Bies about the Vader costume on display. He was firm in his stance that the entire display was screen used even when I contested it. I didn't want to get into a heated debate with him or anything. It was Don Bies for crying out loud. I just let it go.I truly believe that he just doesn't know what is what in regards to Vader pieces. Same goes for the rest of the folks responsible for the stuff in the archives.
KevVader
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GINO @ Nov 28 2006, 04:39 PM) [snapback]1367169[/snapback]</div>
:lol ...I'd pay to see that argument.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GINO @ Nov 28 2006, 04:39 PM) [snapback]1367169[/snapback]</div>
I'd totally agree with that. I don't think that anyone at LFL has scrutinized the Vader (or any other) helmet as much as we (collectively) have here. If they had, I'm sure that the ROTS helmet wouldn't look like it does.
:lol ...I'd pay to see that argument.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GINO @ Nov 28 2006, 04:39 PM) [snapback]1367169[/snapback]</div>
I'd totally agree with that. I don't think that anyone at LFL has scrutinized the Vader (or any other) helmet as much as we (collectively) have here. If they had, I'm sure that the ROTS helmet wouldn't look like it does.
Darth Kahnt
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(animetronic @ Nov 28 2006, 05:15 PM) [snapback]1367140[/snapback]</div>
How much space do you need Josh?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GINO @ Nov 28 2006, 05:39 PM) [snapback]1367169[/snapback]</div>
I'm with you there Gino. The guy knows R2D2 but doesn't have a clue about Vader. I made a comment to that effect in another recent thread.
How much space do you need Josh?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GINO @ Nov 28 2006, 05:39 PM) [snapback]1367169[/snapback]</div>
I'm with you there Gino. The guy knows R2D2 but doesn't have a clue about Vader. I made a comment to that effect in another recent thread.
I could host it as well...no space limits .
I agree with Gino about Bies. I also spoke at length with him about that same Vader and got nowhere.
Independent of how the dome is mounted, I do agree it doesn't look ESB. I think it could be an original helmet/armor, but not screen-used....just an extra set of castings. I agree with Gino that there's no way it's a hero casting set seen onscreen in ESB or ROTJ.
About the black helmet issue with Prowse...two possiblities. We know that the original ANH was painted all black (then gunmetal highlights added later)...and then for ROTJ the gunmetal looks pretty dark...so to Prowse he might be thinking about that or that "original" in the UK means "first" so that he's saying the first original helmet he wore was all black. Maybe he's got something against the gunmetal highlights? It's still baffling to me he misses this obvious change to the helmet.
.I agree with Gino about Bies. I also spoke at length with him about that same Vader and got nowhere.
Independent of how the dome is mounted, I do agree it doesn't look ESB. I think it could be an original helmet/armor, but not screen-used....just an extra set of castings. I agree with Gino that there's no way it's a hero casting set seen onscreen in ESB or ROTJ.
About the black helmet issue with Prowse...two possiblities. We know that the original ANH was painted all black (then gunmetal highlights added later)...and then for ROTJ the gunmetal looks pretty dark...so to Prowse he might be thinking about that or that "original" in the UK means "first" so that he's saying the first original helmet he wore was all black. Maybe he's got something against the gunmetal highlights? It's still baffling to me he misses this obvious change to the helmet.
